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Fraction (Gillen) Uncanny #504-544/ vol.2 1-10...Yay or Nay?

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Fraction (Gillen) Uncanny #504-544/ vol.2 1-10...Yay or Nay?

Post by Blackcyclops » 25 Apr 2020, 19:06

https://unstablemolecules.com/viewtopi ... =13&t=9611
^^^
My inspiration...

References:
Uncanny X-Men (vol.1) #504-544
Uncanny X-Men (vol.2) #1-10
Generation Hope #1-12



Das’s thread about the K/Y run of New X-Men inspired me to re-read the Fraction era of books. Now I know at the time the run was harshly criticized on the forum for the art, portrayal of some characters, plot choices, and the growth of the X-Men from the tight “elite” paramilitary organization into a larger movement and organization that more openly operated for mutant safety and rights.

This was a stark departure from everything before. Even during Morrison’s run where the school opened up and Xavier outed himself, the X-Men still were a smaller group. They moved into more of a political organization but their scale was smaller...which to be fair, the world was in the middle of a mutant population explosion. Then you had M-Day and until they moved to San Francisco (which is where Fraction and then Gillen’s tenures begin), the X-Men felt very much always under attack and one step from losing everything. This was imo their “lowest” point as a political and social organization but one of their strongest as paramilitary defense squad because of the concentration of X-Characters in one place. Then Messiah Complex happened and Brubaker, before he left, gave the X-Men a new status quo. And it is this status quo that Fraction (Gillen) really took the X-Men on a very different journey.

Fraction co-wrote Uncanny #500-503 (at this point UXM was the flagship X-book...a role that Astonishing held prior to that and Morrison’s New X-Men held before it...the big difference was that UXM felt much more connected to the larger X-world and less disconnected like Whedon’s delayed Astonishing or Morrison’s self-important and avant garde New X-Men) and finally with 504 he was the sole writer. But in those 3 short issues that proceeded it we had 1)the X-Men move to SF and get a new base and status as the city’s protectors, 2) everyone (hero and villain) moved to the West Coast and started integrating themselves in the city, 3) Magneto returned, 4) Maddy returned, and 5) we got an idea on who the “main” stars of the X-Men were going to be. And from that start a new era was born.

This era started with the SF-era and then moved to the Utopia Era. This lasted through the entirety of the first volume of Uncanny. So while the X-Men were still fighting for survival, they shifted more into being a socio-political organization and then a quasi-nation state. Even with these new challenges, the book still lacked the absolute doom of the first half of the post-M-Day world. And then when the second volume of Uncanny started in the post-Schism world, the book became even more of a superhero book than Whedon’s Astonishing X-Men but still kept a more socio-political edge than the 90s.

So here’s where the discussion comes in...

-What are your thoughts about the journey of the books arguable leads: Cyclops and Emma? We find them having just survived Messiah CompleX at the start and by the end they’re basically about to start AvX and end the Decimation Epoch (which began in 2005). Over that time there relationship and individual lives went through alot and a majority of it was shown in this title.
-What are you thoughts on the rotating cast concept as Fraction originally tried to execute it until Gillen’s Extinction Team?
-Any final thoughts on the Extinction Squad? How do they measure up in your mind?
-What were your feelings about the San Francisco status quo (which lasts from 500-512)?
-How did you feel about Magneto’s integration into the X-family in such a firm way?
-Those of you who started out hating this run, did your opinion change as time went on?
-Those of you who started out loving this run, again, did your opinion change over time?
-If you’ve revisited it since then, has your opinion changed?
-If you could had added two more mutants to be “stars” of the rotating cast, who would you have chose?
-If you could have picked 1 more mutant to stay on Utopia post-Schism and be on the Extinction Squad, who would you have picked?
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Re: Fraction (Gillen) Uncanny #504-544/ vol.2 1-10...Yay or Nay?

Post by das_boot » 25 Apr 2020, 20:59

-The journey of Emma and Cyclops... ugh. So, I loved the writing of Emma here, but frankly, Cyclops should have been more interesting here than he was... and don’t get me wrong, he came across as a competent leader here, but like... it really felt like he had an issue with delegating, which absolutely should NOT have been the case for Cyclops... the closest he got was by giving Wolverine carte blanche to act as he saw fit with X-Force, but even then... Cyclops didn’t delegate well enough, to me. This was also clearly the start of the downfall of Emma and Scott’s relationship, with both of them keeping secrets from one another. Sure, they had their big reconciliation, but then Emma goes almost right back on that and drops mindwiped Shaw in the middle of China— as one does.
-The rotating cast concept wasn’t strictly accurate... there was clearly a core team of Emma, Scott, Colossus, Wolverine, Kurt, Northstar, The Science Team, Pixie, Namor, Psylocke, Magneto, Storm, and occasionally Dazzler and Professor X. It wasn’t a rotation, it was a big cast where occasionally certain people just didn’t turn up for an arc or so.
-Didn’t read the extinction squad book because I hate Hope Summers as a concept and a (lack of) character
-SF status quo... meh. It was placeholder status at best due to Utopia. It doesn’t really feel like anything more than that with hindsight, but I’m a fan of the fact that the X-Men weren’t in New York
-Magneto’s integration makes sense with the Utopia story and, more importantly, him bringing Kitty back to Earth. He knew he needed a grand gesture and by lucifer’s nipples, there his gesture was. For Cyclops to move out of Xavier’s shadow, it feels almost like he needed BOTH of them to be demonstratively further down the pecking order than Scott, and actually, Magneto was a good soldier here.
-I didn’t hate the run. Fraction and Gillen tried something new and did it work?... kind of. It’s no secret that we X-fans HATED decimation and the fall out. This felt like editorial/the writers attempting to make something good and familiar out of that, having all mutants in one place so that when there’s 200 odd characters in one place, it’s LIKE having the school open again... it’s another way of building a community and gods love them, they tried. They really tried. The constant crossovers and events absolutely kill this era for me though. I’ve revisited since, and keeping in mind that I collected these in trades... there’s a GOOD two or three years where there’s an event every few months. If I recall correctly, we bounce from Messiah Complex to Manifest Destiny to UtopiaX to Necrosha to Second Coming to Age of X to Schism... like, it’s an unnecessary amount guys, come on. The annoying thing is for me, revisiting, that it feels like plot points start picking up steam and then OH LOOK CROSSOVER/EVENT. Sigh. AND FOR WHAT?! HOPE SUMMERS?! WORST CONTRIVANCE OF A CHARACTER EVER! I imagine that the editorial meeting went like this:
“Say guys, the readers seem to have figured out that this red-header girl meant to be insanely powerful, with a close relationship with Cable, allowing themes of REBIRTH amongst the X-Men, could be Jean reincarnated, HOW DID THEY SEE THROUGH OUR CUNNING RUSE?!?!?!?!”
“LETS JUST MAKE HER BE ROGUE BUT DOESNT NEED TO TOUCH PEOPLE AND MAKE THINGS UP ON THE FLY”

GOODBYE EDITORIAL GET A JOB.
-I don’t think this title needed any more mutants in this cast, at all. If anything, it needs less.
-1 more for extinction squad... hmmmm. Let’s take one out instead. Bye Hopeless Summers, you always have been, and always will be, trash.
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Re: Fraction (Gillen) Uncanny #504-544/ vol.2 1-10...Yay or Nay?

Post by Blackcyclops » 26 Apr 2020, 00:01

I kinda figured me and Das would feel somewhat differently about this era...

Now mind you I literally just read those books about two weeks ago so it's all very fresh for me.
-What are you thoughts on the rotating cast concept as Fraction originally tried to execute it until Gillen’s Extinction Team?
I do agree with you here. I think the "idea" that Fraction was trying to go with was that he would have characters rotating in and out o focus. And while his cast was big, I think only early on did he execute it well. And that was only in regard to how the Science Club would star in some stories and in others it would focus back on everyone else. Otherwise, I think he missed some opportunities and really think he could have trimmed the cast down by 1 or 2 characters.
-What were your feelings about the San Francisco status quo (which lasts from 500-512)?
I think this was such a wasted opportunity. I've said it before, I could have gone with 100 more issues just with them in SF. Fraction was at his weakest here BUT there were alot of interesting story beats. And I liked that he tried quite a few different things and wanted to see if they stuck. I really liked having the BReakworlders live there and then (although he didn't write it) the Secret Invasion tie-in was great. I know that Fraction really wanted to move the X-Men to Utopia, I still really wish he would just given us more of them in the city...
-How did you feel about Magneto’s integration into the X-family in such a firm way?
No disagreement here...
-Those of you who started out hating this run, did your opinion change as time went on?
-Those of you who started out loving this run, again, did your opinion change over time?
-If you’ve revisited it since then, has your opinion changed?
See back then when I was reading it, I enjoyed it. But I think I came across as loving it more than I did because I just felt that some of the treatment of the book was unjust and really a function of it not being like CC's run or Morrison's run. So when I would post a positive thing and get 7 "hell no you're wrong", I pushed back (which does shape why I'm less sensitive to how some people feel when they get into dustups about the current status quo). But I do remember as the book went on and particularly when Gillen took over, I really really liked it. And the Extinction Team era is like one of my favorites tbh.

Now when I recently read it, I find that the most negative thing I have to say about it (at least the Fraction stuff) is that I really think the art doesn't fit. And I think alot of the story was negatively impacted by the art. I do think that Fraction would sometimes move too fast with an idea and not spend enough time flushing it out...and I think that we should have had more focus on folks that weren't Cyclops, Emma, and Magneto...BUT I do think it's still a pretty solid run. And Gillen's stuff? I think it reads even better now. He has a way of writing everyone (including Hope) that fits so perfectly and his cast feels like the most superhero of superhero teams. Like this felt like the X-Men's version of the Justice League and I think it will go down for me as one of the best all-time casts. And the art was wayyyyyy better and fit the story that Gillen was trying to tell too.

And I'd push back on Boots comment about the number of crossovers. At least so far as how they impacted this run.
First a timeline for context

Messiah Complex
A full-fledged crossover between all the X-books at the time and yes was about Hope LOL
2007

Divided We Stand
this was the banner (ie marketing) for X-Books after MC
2008

Manifest Destiny
the banner used for the books to signify the X-World centered in the West
2008

Messiah War
a crossover only between X-Force and Cable, focused on Hope lol...still it didn't really mess with any other book and the story was very much a product of what was happening in both books
2009

Utopia
not about Hope and really just a crossover between Dark Avengers and this title...was the impetus to move the X-Men to the island...it also
involved storybeats that had been brewing in this book for sometime, so rather organic in hindsight
2009

Necrosha
I misremembered this as a full-on crossover but it didn't involve this book at all...this story was the accumulation of everything in X-Force though. Totally organic for that book...
2009/2010

Second Coming
the end of the Messiah Trilogy and was an actual full-on crossover...basically the end of the story started with Messiah Complex
2010

Age of X
similar to Messiah War, it only involved two actual titles...Legacy and NM...this is the one I have not re-read so I don't know how organic it was to either book at the time
2011

Schism
You know I also mis-remembered this as a crossover but it really was just the mini-series with a crossover ONLY with Generation Hope...of all the stories this one is probably the one that could be described as the most obtrusive since the story really comes moreso from things happening in Wolverine's solo series and maybe hints in UXM with Cyclops' behavior
2011

So, and this is just my view, but if you look at those stories as they are and not tainted by the "idea" of the crossover/event (which if I'm being honest I think that similar to some other controversial or maligned concepts, the idea of the crossover or event is more toxic to some fans than the actual thing when executed because at the end of the day they're just stories that happen to be a larger format) most of them are no different than if I listed a bunch of Uncanny X-Men multi-issue stories like Poptopia, Nation X, Dominant Species, Rise and Fall of the Shi'Ar Empire or The Proteus Saga. And if I listed those "regular" stories that way, it would seem like non-stop stuff too LOL...

Now it might be because this era is so fresh on my mind that it really wasn't as obtrusive as I would think after reading Boots' post (like Manifest Destiny wasn't a crossover/event but just a banner to illustrate the X-world moving west). In particular for this book the ones that do touch this title felt like Fraction very much wanted them to be involved. And while I do find flaws with his run, I do think he did a good job of building towards payoffs in these larger stories. And having gone back through the other X-writers of the 00s, Fraction was easily better than everyone NOT named Gillen. And that's not heaping him with false praise (I think Joe Casey and Brubaker are also too harshly criticized).
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Re: Fraction (Gillen) Uncanny #504-544/ vol.2 1-10...Yay or Nay?

Post by das_boot » 26 Apr 2020, 00:39

You know what, BC, I totally agree. The TERRIBLE Land art really really REALLY hurt this run, and as much as I love the Dodson’s in Generation X, their art didn’t mesh well with Land’s and the difference between arcs was just... no. No no no. It really impacted my immediate enjoyment of this title and this run.

So also, y’know what, I’m going to be really real here BC— due to liking and respecting you and the other posters, I genuinely had to start avoiding the threads for Uncanny around this time because I honestly felt like my criticisms of this title were always met with a block of “well don’t read them then LOL”, and it really felt like I was genuinely being told that my opinions were invalid— looking back? It was surely just as irritating for you, on the other side of that— I won’t bother apologising because it’s done and gone, but what I will say is this; perhaps it’s actually a really good thing that a writer can generate such strong emotions from readers, whether those are good or bad emotions 🤷‍♂️

ANYWAAAAAAY

Necrosha was X-Force (main story) and New Mutants (Doug and Warlock’s resurrection) and Legacy (Rogue, Magneto, Colossus, Husk, Psylocke, Trance, Blindfold and Nightcrawler vs Proteus).

Schism, I would argue you kind of HAD to read. You HAD to see what was the final nail in the Scott/Logan coffin at that point because actually, up until then, Logan understood Scott’s vision! He helmed a death squad for him! LITERALLY, Schism was THE most ridiculous story. I get that Idie killing people was no bueno, but like... Idie already thought that killing the Hellfire goons was the only way out— Scott didn’t give the order, directly, to kill (from what I remember)... and it was a kill or be killed situation and while I know Logan has to be the sin-eater of the X-Men but like... what would he have preferred? I know it’s not a black and white issue but was this really enough to cause such a huge divide when Logan literally had two teenagers on a kill squad just issues earlier?

EDIT because I’ve been drinking and it hasn’t made me clever: sorry, my point was that you kind of HAD to read Schism so that you can understand why it’s happening, then you have an awkward two issues of each title explaining what’s happening with the cast of those titles... maybe I over-estimated the events and crossovers, but I’d also argue that if you weren’t reading Uncanny, you’d be confused by Magneto’s or Kitty’s sudden appearance in Legacy... then some of the ways that the characters fell after Schism just didn’t feel organic at all: Jubilee siding with Cyclops over Wolverine? P A R D O N?! (I know there were others but I can’t remember them off hand, I know Storm was on the extinction team, said she could never be friends with Logan again, and then ended up joining Logan’s side after AvX I think? Or maybe just before? Anyway, that’s nonsense and after this period I think).

I mean... I don’t actually hate a lot of the characters from the 5 Lights. Zero was really interesting (if overplayed as the dark and twisted one), Idie I actually really enjoyed once she left Generation Hope, Primal had an interesting powerset, I liked Velocidad’s twist on superspeed... then we have Transsonic. Sigh. SIGH SIGH SIGH. Even if it wasn’t for Hope, she’s enough of a reason to lament this title. Also, I can’t hate Gillen and McKelvie, they gave me YA and Wic/Div 🤷‍♂️

I dunno. Bits of this era worked and I’d really actually love it if Fraction got another bite at the Apple but... with good artists 🤷‍♂️
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Re: Fraction (Gillen) Uncanny #504-544/ vol.2 1-10...Yay or Nay?

Post by Magnus » 26 Apr 2020, 06:13

Now I have to find time to reread these too? :)

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Re: Fraction (Gillen) Uncanny #504-544/ vol.2 1-10...Yay or Nay?

Post by Leo » 26 Apr 2020, 07:02

I think I left all the issues from this era at a friend's before I moved countries. Anyway, based on memory I agree with a lot of what BC and Das were saying.

Looking back at Fraction run (without rereading), it wasn't actually that bad. I enjoyed some elements of it, but he didn't seem to follow through with his ideas to the fullest potential. I mean like BC said, the X-Men was based in SF for a hot minute before Utopia happened. it was such a big thing moving the X-Men to the west coast, but we didn't even get to enjoy it.

Agree with Das that schism was totally unnecessary, unbelievable, and just no. It was like Logan suddenly gained Beast's self-righteousness as a secondary mutation and forgot that he just led a kill squad with kids on it.

Gillen is still one of my favourites (if not the favourite) X-writers. He introduced story beats that are well-executed, and more importantly, delivered them to their conclusions. Too bad AvX cut his run short, but at least he gave us the most interesting version of Mr Sinister since ever. I love how he used Sinister to book-ended his run .

The Extinction Team is definitely the most powerful strike team that the X-men has ever assembled. The only thing missing from it was a brawler/scrapper type of character. Logan would have been perfect, but schism, so yeah...

Edit: I really hope HIckman managed to convince Gillen to return to the X-men to write a title as a part of DoX
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Re: Fraction (Gillen) Uncanny #504-544/ vol.2 1-10...Yay or Nay?

Post by Blackcyclops » 26 Apr 2020, 12:01

@Das- you’re right it was hard on my end because every remotely positive thing was almost met with a “you’re effing crazy, this is trash!”...but I’m sorry for coming off that way toward you. It was the frustration talking...

About Schism: it wasn’t perfect in execution (I still think that last issue and the fight issue were terrific), sure but I think you miss the impetus if you we gloss over one thing and didn’t read another. The first is exactly what you refer to in X-Force. Logan did have two teens on the team but almost from the start it didn’t sit well with him. And how things ended? There was never a moment or time where he was “this is cool”. But yeah it isn’t super pronounced.

But the second one is the key, and it’s the last three arcs in Aaron’s Wolverine run leading up to Schism. In particular it was Logan’s murder of his own children. That event (and the victory of the Red Right Hand...the most successful villains in Wolverine history lol) rocked Logan and I think if you read those issues, you come out the end knowing that 1)Logan has fundamentally changed and 2) he could never ever do what he did with X-Force before. Without that setup you’re absolutely right, nothing in Schism makes sense.

About Storm, she never said that...she stayed with Cyclops precisely to keep an eye on his side.
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Re: Fraction (Gillen) Uncanny #504-544/ vol.2 1-10...Yay or Nay?

Post by das_boot » 26 Apr 2020, 12:42

@BC, there was literally a panel, just after everyone found out about X-Force and after Kurt’s death, where Storm and Logan have a beer in Kurt’s old room and Storm says something along the lines of “this is probably the last time that we’ll speak like this because I can’t forgive this behaviour”.

But you’re right, I’ve never really followed Wolverine’s solo titles (again, why I was confused at his lack of healing factor), so the insinuations there for the Schism were totally lost on me, thus KIND of making my point— in order for Schism to make sense to me as a reader, I was expected to:
-Follow Uncanny X-Men for Scott and Emma’s development
-Follow Wolverine’s solo title for the reasons you gave above
-Follow X-Force to understand that Logan was never comfortable with teens on the team (although he WAS cool with the Cuckoos knowing about X-Force but not Emma, so there’s TECHNICALLY three 3 year olds he brought in to the mix too)
-Follow Generation Hopeless to see how not even a writer of Gillen’s calibre could save her from being a lame boring plot device
-Follow Schism as a mini-series because the key issue of Schism takes place (if I recall correctly) directly after the episode where Idie kills the Hellfire goons.

... my man. That’s a LOT of titles to keep up with, most of which a reader should NOT have to assume they would HAVE to read to make heads or tails of a story. I didn’t read Generation Hopeless or Wolverine— and I, as a reader of many years, was confused by what was going on— to the point that you have literally just now had to explain a plot point to me that I totally missed...

Also, we’re totally neglecting the adjectiveless X-Men, the plot to turn Jubilee into a vampire and the associated one-shots that came with that.
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Re: Fraction (Gillen) Uncanny #504-544/ vol.2 1-10...Yay or Nay?

Post by tokenBG1009 » 26 Apr 2020, 12:44

I never read the majority of Fraction's run, but I did read Gillen's.

I enjoyed Gillen's run, but I hate what he did with Sinister. Unless someone else turn Sinister into the weird cosmopolitan guy he's become. I haven't found him actually threatening since the books in this era. He has moments in HoX where he reminds me of the old Sinister, but for the most part he's definitely lost half himself.
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Re: Fraction (Gillen) Uncanny #504-544/ vol.2 1-10...Yay or Nay?

Post by das_boot » 26 Apr 2020, 12:48

Technically I think it was Gillen who gave us this Sinister, or at least dressed him as Steampunk as possible... again, I refused to read this title due to Hope’s presence in it, so I can’t be sure, but I don’t think it was Gillen who made him quite camp, I think that was maybe Hickman in Secret Bores.
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Re: Fraction (Gillen) Uncanny #504-544/ vol.2 1-10...Yay or Nay?

Post by Blackcyclops » 26 Apr 2020, 14:36

Yeah Gillen did introduce that version of Sinister...

About Storm: Oh that’s in Second Coming? I thought you meant Storm said that after Schism since we was talking about Schism damn now I’m confused lol...and I didn’t realize you were saying that Schism was kinda of convoluted because you had to be following separate plot threads (I don’t know if you’d have to follow Generation Hope since Idie was introduced in UXM right?) But yeah the Wolverine, XForce, and UXM connection before hand is true even if they didn’t all tie-in to the story and instead fed into it.

The vampire thing was very isolated though and while it had ramifications, it didn’t take over every other book (like a crossover or event) and instead was a story in 1 book (with small tie-ins that were separate one-shots...which I mean that’s no different than a “normal” one-shot and it helped launch Namor’s solo). That X-Men volume though deserves it’s own thread for being so weird in hindsight
Last edited by Blackcyclops on 26 Apr 2020, 14:45, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Fraction (Gillen) Uncanny #504-544/ vol.2 1-10...Yay or Nay?

Post by das_boot » 26 Apr 2020, 14:42

GOD BC KEEP UP lol

Yeah, after Second Coming, which was why she didn’t side with Logan during Schism...
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Re: Fraction (Gillen) Uncanny #504-544/ vol.2 1-10...Yay or Nay?

Post by Blackcyclops » 26 Apr 2020, 14:46

I thought she didn’t side with Logan because she straight up said she’s staying to watch Cyclops?
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Re: Fraction (Gillen) Uncanny #504-544/ vol.2 1-10...Yay or Nay?

Post by das_boot » 26 Apr 2020, 15:17

I think that was what she said in the first post-Schism issue, and it was more to Magneto and Emma than to Scott... but the general impression I got was that she couldn’t go with Logan because of X-Force, even though Scott had mandated it.
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Re: Fraction (Gillen) Uncanny #504-544/ vol.2 1-10...Yay or Nay?

Post by Magik84 » 26 Apr 2020, 15:29

Blackcyclops wrote:
26 Apr 2020, 14:46
I thought she didn’t side with Logan because she straight up said she’s staying to watch Cyclops?
Wasn't it after a big speech Cyclops had to her that he needed someone with her morals on his side, as otherwise his team was full of ex villains and she agreed to keep an eye on him, think it may have been a one shot (there really was too many books to keep track of for this event!)

As for the San Francisco run

I liked Cyclops and Emma's relationship and thought they were good co-leaders, think Emma works well co-leading with a more upstanding person (i.e. her and Sean in Gen X too). The rotating cast could have done better, having focus on other characters for a story but it always still centered around Cyclops and Emma. I did like Emma's friendship with Nightcrawler here, but although appearing as supporting character most of this run, Kurt really didn't get to do anything (except die for Hope!). Other characters got a bit more to do, but mostly they didn't get to do much other that stand around and support the few main players. Probably only Cyclops, Emma, Pixie and later Magneto really had any development.

Then the Gillen Extinction run which was a time I was falling out of X-Men comics (actually after Nation X storyline, I stopped reading Uncanny for a bit) I tuned back in for after Schism but only read full Gillen stuff after getting Marvel Unlimited. I do think that whole AvsX was terrible, probably Gillen's stuff could do with a re-read but I've no strong feelings about it.

The San Francisco era before Utopia seems short, they'd spend some issues just getting established so we hardly got time to settle into it when they moved to Utopia.

Magneto's interrogation was fine, since the 80s there was always alliances some times.

I enjoyed the run, it was a time when I was more interested in other publishers and I started spending money on other comics, so I don't have a strong attachment to it. Mostly having read it on Marvel Unlimited later I think it was mostly good, like the science team, nation x stuff on the other side Sisterhood arc was very messy! But I don't have a big attachment to it like other eras.

Stars to pick on rotating team, I would have given Nightcrawler more to do! I don't know who I would have chosen to stay on Utopia after Schism, Surge did stay? It would have been cool to see her be on Extinction team.
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Spectral Knight
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Re: Fraction (Gillen) Uncanny #504-544/ vol.2 1-10...Yay or Nay?

Post by Spectral Knight » 26 Apr 2020, 16:00

Okay, this will probably a bit of a mangle of thoughts rather than steered by the questions in the opener...

So...

On the whole, I can't say I hated the Fraction era, but I did get a little bored by it. I don't think I can recall this with clarity and it's been a long time since I've read all of these issues, but I do remember thinking the move west was a bit unneeded.

It was definitely the Scott and Emma show. Both characters I do enjoy (if not "like" I think there's a purpose to them both) but the rotating cast concept of the earlier issues in this run meant that actually fewer characters got development... as they were shunted around a bit. I've frequently had a bee in my bonnet of how Scott has developed, but there was no disputing he was the main man.

Saying that - from memory I really enjoyed Pixie in this era. She was a character that I didn't really care for at the start, skipping all the teen books, but integrated with the main roster is how I like to see young characters develop.

On the whole though, I think of this era by crossover and I don't believe that Fraction was steering these. It felt at times crossovers happened separately from what was happening issue by issue so it didn't feel particularly coherent. I liked the outcome of Schism, as it gave me a book that I could skip (harsh as that sounds) as most of my faves were on Wolverine's side but it did set the tone for A vs X.

Gillen? Don't know what to say here as I pretty much skipped the lot. Funny, I love some of his indie titles (Wicked and Divine, and of course, Phonogram) but on a mainstream franchise book with that cast? Nope, not for me. I still passionately believe him and McKelvie could do stirling work on an Excalibur or MI13 books with their astute takes on Brit pop culture but I don't think his style worked on UXM at all.

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Re: Fraction (Gillen) Uncanny #504-544/ vol.2 1-10...Yay or Nay?

Post by Blackcyclops » 26 Apr 2020, 16:55

See this is why I think (if you have access) you re-read this again because you’ll see that Fraction’s run wasn’t as inundated with crossovers like you think. I checked it out and the two crossovers that involved his run (Second Coming and Utopia) come from seeds he put in, seeds that he inherited (Hope in the future), or were a part of being in a shared universe (Norman Osborn taking over). That’s it...Gillen then wrote those remaining Issues and had a Fear Itself tie-in but I think everyone regards that story as a huge success because it showed how competent the X-Men were and didn’t detour any story beats. The series ends and when Gillen starts the next volume he goes along pretty strong but his run IS interrupted by AvX. But as Leo said he handles it better than most and still ties his run up in a nice bow with Sinister again.

@Das and Magik: So I just went and looked and Schism and the fallout (Regenesis) really isn’t as crazy as you think. There was a four issue mini-series (the Prelude to Schism) that really wasn’t pertinent to the actual Schism story but Paul Jenkins did a great character study of Xavier, Magneto, Cyclops, and Wolverine. Then there is the five issue Schism mini-series. The only direct tie-in was in Generation Hope 10-12. And then the aftermath was in X-Men Regenesis...that’s the one-shot that launched the Schism-era of divided books (personally I like that the books were split). That’s it... you could split the Prelude series and you had 9 issues...not that crazy tbh.

And it was in the Regenesis One-shot that Cyclops asks Storm to stay. She was going with Wolverine at first and was putting the blame of x-Force on Cyclops and not Logan. But Cyke begs her to stay to keep an eye on him.

Funny how memory works lol
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das_boot
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Re: Fraction (Gillen) Uncanny #504-544/ vol.2 1-10...Yay or Nay?

Post by das_boot » 26 Apr 2020, 19:39

... if this is right, then why oh why did this feel like the period of crossovers and events?

Also, this is 100% my Mandela effect because I have such a vivid memory of Storm saying to Logan that she couldn’t join him because of X-Force. 100%.
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Blackcyclops
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Re: Fraction (Gillen) Uncanny #504-544/ vol.2 1-10...Yay or Nay?

Post by Blackcyclops » 26 Apr 2020, 20:31

Because there were events every other place in the MU.

You gotta remember the X-Men from Morrison till AvX, we were completely set off alone in their corner of the MU. The X-Men did have periphery tie-ins to some stories but except for HoM and Fear Itself, they never really jumped into the middle of ongoing series.

The Bendis Era of Marvel was all about big EVENTs (the smaller crossover that might have happen between two or three titles is really what happened in the x-books at the time) so those happening around the X-books made it seem like we had way more events happening to us than what actually happened.
Morrison Era 2001-2005, Decimation Era from 2005-2012, Bendis Era 2012-2016, M-Pox era 2016-2017, and Resurrxion 2017-2019, Hickman Era 2019-?

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