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Warning SPOILERS for Marauders #8 - Regarding Kitty

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Anna Raven
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Warning SPOILERS for Marauders #8 - Regarding Kitty

Post by Anna Raven » 21 Feb 2020, 23:55

So as I said in the Marauders #8 thread. It is my opinion that Kitty is the false mutant that was discovered in The Hunt for Wolverine: Adamantium Agenda. It would explain why she hasn't been able to go through the Mutant Only Krakoa Gates.

In any case, as you probably know if you have read Marauders #8 (You should know there are going to be spoilers by now... you have been warned!)

Kitty was killed by Sebastian Shaw. Her body was recovered by Bishop.

So if I were writing this, this is how I would see it going: Beast or whoever does the autopsy discovers that this isn't really Kitty, but a genetically manipulated clone or automaton, that by all cursory tests, appears to be mutant, but cannot fool something checking actual genetics like the gates or Beast's autopsy.

The question is, when was Kitty switched and by whom?

The obvious answer to the first question is when she was floating around in space in her giant bullet.

The answer to the second question? No idea.

Anyone else have any guesses? Or am I way off base here?
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Re: Warning SPOILERS for Marauders #8 - Regarding Kitty

Post by Aeon » 22 Feb 2020, 00:06

Can’t remember exactly, as ever, but didn’t the Neo recognize something about her, something else than being a mutant.
Not talking about her assumed Neo heritage, she wasn’t killed by those Neo hunter machines, but what if the Neo already sensed something odd about her?

This could mean she was either switched during Excalibur, or when she was in Shi’Ar space with the X-Men during Dark Phoenix.

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Re: Warning SPOILERS for Marauders #8 - Regarding Kitty

Post by _Rick_ » 22 Feb 2020, 00:16

Anna Raven wrote:
21 Feb 2020, 23:55
The question is, when was Kitty switched and by whom?
In the maternity ward... by the Neo. At least that has been a possibility since X-men Declassified #1 issue. It's possible that the Neo are mutant enough to fool most sensors but distinct enough for Krakoa to be able to sense the difference and reject Kitty. Since Cerebro only seems to have been copying mutant brains, it's possible that the resurrection protocols don't work on her either.

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Re: Warning SPOILERS for Marauders #8 - Regarding Kitty

Post by Magnus » 22 Feb 2020, 01:41

I had considered the possibility that Duggan is picking up on the "secret human infiltrator" thread, but if you put a gun to my head I'd say I don't think that plot hook is ever going to be picked up again with the new direction. I'm not very sure on that but ultimately that'd be my guess.

Also I think it would kinda be disappointing to effectively go back and retcon all those appearances as "not Kitty." I know a lot of folks here don't like the character but I still think it'd be demeaning. Especially if it goes back 20 years to the freaking Neo.

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Re: Warning SPOILERS for Marauders #8 - Regarding Kitty

Post by Jesse James II » 22 Feb 2020, 06:40

Maybe she's a remnant from the whole "Secret Invasion"-stuff that was going on. This reminds me a bit of the whole traitor /not-being-a-mutant thing...

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Re: Warning SPOILERS for Marauders #8 - Regarding Kitty

Post by tokenBG1009 » 22 Feb 2020, 09:17

Kate's had enough hints dropped about not being quite right that I'm fine with her being some "Neo/Not Mutant" person. I don't think I like the idea of her as a secret traitor though. As much as I hate Kitty historically she's an integral member of the X-Men and it'd feel almost like Cyclops or someone being a traitor.
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Re: Warning SPOILERS for Marauders #8 - Regarding Kitty

Post by Blackcyclops » 22 Feb 2020, 11:32

tokenBG1009 wrote:
22 Feb 2020, 09:17
Kate's had enough hints dropped about not being quite right that I'm fine with her being some "Neo/Not Mutant" person. I don't think I like the idea of her as a secret traitor though. As much as I hate Kitty historically she's an integral member of the X-Men and it'd feel almost like Cyclops or someone being a traitor.

Agreed...

Her not being fully a mutant would actually be addressing a CC plot point from years back and I thought we all loved when danglers get resolved (hugs everybody)?
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Re: Warning SPOILERS for Marauders #8 - Regarding Kitty

Post by comicsfan666 » 22 Feb 2020, 11:41

Don't really like any of these options, that is, having her be switched out since a while back or making her not a mutant.

How would that serve either the character or the story being told?

Not to even consider what the fans might think. I am personally not a Kitty super-fan so would not care much, but Duggan probably would.

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Re: Warning SPOILERS for Marauders #8 - Regarding Kitty

Post by tokenBG1009 » 22 Feb 2020, 12:07

1. Identity Crisis - Kate has lived her life as a mutant. She gave an entire speech on how important being a mutant is that was a reverse of Alex's speech how being a mutant wasn't that big of a deal and he was still a human.

2. Krakoan Era X-Men view being a mutant above anything else. It doesn't matter if you're a genocidal megalomaniac, psychic vampire that has a 10,000 year reign of terror, or serial killer with a body count to rival the Joker on a mortal level. They've alienated long time allies because they aren't mutants. To suddenly have one of their most prestigious and long term members NOT be a mutant would be utterly fascinating. How does Rachel, Illyana, or Piotr, three mutants implicitly tied to her in many ways, react to this?

That's actually one hell of a story in my opinion.
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Re: Warning SPOILERS for Marauders #8 - Regarding Kitty

Post by comicsfan666 » 22 Feb 2020, 12:36

It would complicate the character from an IP management perspective, a bit too late to change such a fundamental aspect.

Also would be strange seen from in-universe, Cerebro has been working just fine all these years and not detected any anomalies. That was how she even came to the X-Men's notice in the first place.

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Re: Warning SPOILERS for Marauders #8 - Regarding Kitty

Post by tokenBG1009 » 22 Feb 2020, 13:11

It wouldn't really complicate her because she's an X-Men character. She's lumped in with them the same way Juggernaut is despite him not being a mutant.

Cerebro could be answered with a handwave made-up excuse. Basically, something was changed in her DNA to make her visible to Cerebro, but Krakoa wasn't considered so she can't get through the gates. Kate as a non-mutant already has some precedence. The groundwork was laid years ago.
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Re: Warning SPOILERS for Marauders #8 - Regarding Kitty

Post by Blackcyclops » 22 Feb 2020, 14:37

And I’m not even saying she isn’t a mutant per say but that if we go off the NEO thread that she’s something not quite a mutant but not a human either.

It wouldn’t even be a new idea but one that CC (her creator) put in place and it kind of vanished.

I’m not saying it HAS to be that (like I’m cool with Kate as she is) but that I can at least see a kernel of story there and story that Duggan just retcon whole cloth (see Moira X) but was put in olace years ago and just abandoned.
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Anna Raven
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Re: Warning SPOILERS for Marauders #8 - Regarding Kitty

Post by Anna Raven » 22 Feb 2020, 18:00

Well in my mind, it's not really that complicated, especially if you just go back to the bullet, as opposed to the Neo incident, which I confess im not really familiar with. This version of Kitty is dead, but maybe the real Kitty is still out in space having space adventures or something.
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Re: Warning SPOILERS for Marauders #8 - Regarding Kitty

Post by _Rick_ » 22 Feb 2020, 18:52

Anna Raven wrote:
22 Feb 2020, 18:00
Well in my mind, it's not really that complicated, especially if you just go back to the bullet, as opposed to the Neo incident, which I confess im not really familiar with. This version of Kitty is dead, but maybe the real Kitty is still out in space having space adventures or something.
The Neo incident isn't that complicated either. Like I said, it just means that the "Kitty Pryde" that we've always known is a Neo that was sneaked into the Nursery of a Chicago hospital years ago. Basically the Prydes raised a baby that wasn't biologically theirs and their baby was taken by the Neo (what happened to that baby is anyone's guess).

If so it would explain why Kitty was often detected as a mutant (Neo are mutants) but why some more sensitive scans might reveal she's different (Neo are an offshoot of mutantkind making her unique amongst the x-men). It would also mean that this Kitty is the one that we've met at age 13 since the switch was shortly after her birth and avoid making her a "traitor" since it's unlikely that she would know about the switch.

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Re: Warning SPOILERS for Marauders #8 - Regarding Kitty

Post by Anna Raven » 22 Feb 2020, 20:19

_Rick_ wrote:
22 Feb 2020, 18:52
Anna Raven wrote:
22 Feb 2020, 18:00
Well in my mind, it's not really that complicated, especially if you just go back to the bullet, as opposed to the Neo incident, which I confess im not really familiar with. This version of Kitty is dead, but maybe the real Kitty is still out in space having space adventures or something.
The Neo incident isn't that complicated either. Like I said, it just means that the "Kitty Pryde" that we've always known is a Neo that was sneaked into the Nursery of a Chicago hospital years ago. Basically the Prydes raised a baby that wasn't biologically theirs and their baby was taken by the Neo (what happened to that baby is anyone's guess).

If so it would explain why Kitty was often detected as a mutant (Neo are mutants) but why some more sensitive scans might reveal she's different (Neo are an offshoot of mutantkind making her unique amongst the x-men). It would also mean that this Kitty is the one that we've met at age 13 since the switch was shortly after her birth and avoid making her a "traitor" since it's unlikely that she would know about the switch.
That would be interesting.
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Re: Warning SPOILERS for Marauders #8 - Regarding Kitty

Post by Lavettye » 22 Feb 2020, 22:19

_Rick_ wrote:
22 Feb 2020, 18:52
If so it would explain why Kitty was often detected as a mutant (Neo are mutants) but why some more sensitive scans might reveal she's different (Neo are an offshoot of mutantkind making her unique amongst the x-men). It would also mean that this Kitty is the one that we've met at age 13 since the switch was shortly after her birth and avoid making her a "traitor" since it's unlikely that she would know about the switch.
That would be all true… but it would make the Kate Pryde we all know and came to like/hate, very very dead. :shock:

Personally, I don't see the gate problem being connected to the suggested non-mutant status in Adamatium Agenda. Non-mutants can pass the gates too, if they are invited by someone and Krakoka approves. Don't you think, Storm and Kurt, or several others tried inviting Katne along before they sent her on a week-long sailing trip halfway around the world? Yet, Krakoa doesn't seem to have that much of a problem with her, as Kate can set foot on the Island and spend time there without plants and animals attacking her.

It's more like Krakoa doesn't even recognize that Kate is there at all, Maybe its related to the shift in her powers after the Mutant Massacre? For quite a long time, being phased was Kitty's natural state, and she had to concentrate to become solid.
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Re: Warning SPOILERS for Marauders #8 - Regarding Kitty

Post by _Rick_ » 22 Feb 2020, 23:55

Lavettye wrote:
22 Feb 2020, 22:19
_Rick_ wrote:
22 Feb 2020, 18:52
If so it would explain why Kitty was often detected as a mutant (Neo are mutants) but why some more sensitive scans might reveal she's different (Neo are an offshoot of mutantkind making her unique amongst the x-men). It would also mean that this Kitty is the one that we've met at age 13 since the switch was shortly after her birth and avoid making her a "traitor" since it's unlikely that she would know about the switch.
That would be all true… but it would make the Kate Pryde we all know and came to like/hate, very very dead. :shock:
I think a lot of people would be happy about that :lol: Personally I wouldn't mind if the title shifts the focus towards the Emma/Shaw political maneuvers over Kitty's not quite mid-life crisis. However, I'd expect that it would be possible to explain her resurrection along the lines of "we had to re-calibrate Krakoa/Cerebro to Neo specifications for Kitty". Either that or just ask Jamie nicely. He can do it himself.
Lavettye wrote:
22 Feb 2020, 22:19
Personally, I don't see the gate problem being connected to the suggested non-mutant status in Adamatium Agenda. Non-mutants can pass the gates too, if they are invited by someone and Krakoka approves. Don't you think, Storm and Kurt, or several others tried inviting Katne along before they sent her on a week-long sailing trip halfway around the world? Yet, Krakoa doesn't seem to have that much of a problem with her, as Kate can set foot on the Island and spend time there without plants and animals attacking her.

It's more like Krakoa doesn't even recognize that Kate is there at all, Maybe its related to the shift in her powers after the Mutant Massacre? For quite a long time, being phased was Kitty's natural state, and she had to concentrate to become solid.
Krakoa doesn't seem to be treating her as a human. Humans are mentioned to pass through the gate as if it wasn't there. More recently we saw that happen to Franklin after Reed masked his mutant gene. That's not what happened to Kitty. The gate reacts to her as if it's a solid wall.

As for the phasing, didn't she say that she tried phasing through it? That would imply that she tried to pass through in solid and phased state so that doesn't seem to be an explanation either. Obviously, all of this depends on how tight the writing is. It's really strange that noone has seemed to bother trying to give Kitty an answer. One of her best friends is the guy that can communicate with Krakoa. Why hasn't Doug asked Krakoa directly?

The whole thing has been really contrived from the start if you ask me. Kitty shouldn't have exposed herself that much until they had an answer. Moreover, I don't even get why Emma gave her these duties. She's the worst possible person for the job. As a trader she just slows everything down since the drugs would be far easier to distribute via the portals present in allied nations rather than by boat. As for the rescue operations, she can only get to people by the coast which puts the burden on many refugees to make dangerous journeys in order to get to a place that Kitty can access by boat. Plus, travelling by Ocean actually takes a LONG time something that seems to be ignored. That first trip to Russia would have taken many many hours, even if we're assuming that Storm conjured record speed winds. The trip to England in Excalibur would have taken many weeks... possibly even months. We're lead to believe everyone if doing this just to humor Kitty and not make her feels bad, meanwhile people who are waiting rescue are made to wait. No wonder Gambit was whining the whole trip.

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Re: Warning SPOILERS for Marauders #8 - Regarding Kitty

Post by norwichchris » 23 Feb 2020, 15:54

Personally what I never understand from reading Maurauders is why don't they just use the Blackbird it has stealth capabilities? does it not still exist? have missed a lot of X-men comics over the years pretty sure they still have the jet.

I would suspect she was the X-men mole in the first place as its more likely.

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Re: Warning SPOILERS for Marauders #8 - Regarding Kitty

Post by Aeon » 23 Feb 2020, 16:28

They use the ship for cargo transportation to Krakoa and rescuing mutants, so they need space.

The BB would also look very offensive and military, compared to the Love Boat.

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Re: Warning SPOILERS for Marauders #8 - Regarding Kitty

Post by Lavettye » 23 Feb 2020, 17:04

_Rick_ wrote:
22 Feb 2020, 23:55
Krakoa doesn't seem to be treating her as a human. Humans are mentioned to pass through the gate as if it wasn't there. More recently we saw that happen to Franklin after Reed masked his mutant gene. That's not what happened to Kitty. The gate reacts to her as if it's a solid wall.
Yes, that is what I was getting at - Krakoa desn't seem to recognize Kate as any kind of person. It doesn't recognize her as a mutant that gets transported, it doesn't recognize her as a non-mutant who harmlessly passes through the gate without being transported. She also apparently isn't considered an "object" that could be transported along someone else… it's like she is air or energy. I mean if the wind blows towards the gate in Central Park, you wouldn't feel it on the corresponding gate on Krakoa. Same with energy attacks. You can't shoot a laser beam into one gate, with the beam then emerging from another gate. I wonder what would happen if Kate were phased inside someone, like Colossus. Would Krakoa rejected both, or just transport Piotr?

If it's not related to any genetic thing, maybe it really just is a side-effect of Kate's powers? She used to short-circuit electricity when she phased, maybe this also affects Krakoa's bio-electricity?
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Re: Warning SPOILERS for Marauders #8 - Regarding Kitty

Post by norwichchris » 23 Feb 2020, 18:45

That would depend entirely on how the gate mechanism works, its likely that it based on DNA reading in that it will read the x-gene in a mutant and transport them even if they are with a human.

If that was the case would she still be able to resurrect as it is heavily implied she can't for whatever reason.

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Re: Warning SPOILERS for Marauders #8 - Regarding Kitty

Post by _Rick_ » 23 Feb 2020, 20:55

norwichchris wrote:
23 Feb 2020, 15:54
Personally what I never understand from reading Maurauders is why don't they just use the Blackbird it has stealth capabilities? does it not still exist? have missed a lot of X-men comics over the years pretty sure they still have the jet.

I would suspect she was the X-men mole in the first place as its more likely.
They still have planes. Summer House has a hangar and we've seen Cyclops use them. In New Mutants Armor chastised Boom-Boom for not coming to the rescue using a Blackbird (which would imply they are available for non-security members. Kitty, as a Quiet Council member should be allowed to use one for missions. We are led to believe she doesn't by choice. Same as she won't accept Magik or other teleporters help because of her ego. Meanwhile, people who need rescue suffer, goods don't get delivered, etc.
Aeon wrote:
23 Feb 2020, 16:28
They use the ship for cargo transportation to Krakoa and rescuing mutants, so they need space.

The BB would also look very offensive and military, compared to the Love Boat.
They have a Krakoan gate on board. They really don't need that much space if they can portal everything to any location instantly. They don't have to travel the Oceans with cargo. In fact, considering that Kitty is responsible for trade with allied nations only (smuggling drugs is Shaw's domain) I don't get why not link the gates from the processing facilities directly with distribution center gates across the world. It would be faster, cheaper and less of a hassle. As for not looking offensive and military, their behavior completely negates that justification. They've had confrontations with multiple countries by now. Some that could have been avoided.
Lavettye wrote:
23 Feb 2020, 17:04
_Rick_ wrote:
22 Feb 2020, 23:55
Krakoa doesn't seem to be treating her as a human. Humans are mentioned to pass through the gate as if it wasn't there. More recently we saw that happen to Franklin after Reed masked his mutant gene. That's not what happened to Kitty. The gate reacts to her as if it's a solid wall.
Yes, that is what I was getting at - Krakoa desn't seem to recognize Kate as any kind of person. It doesn't recognize her as a mutant that gets transported, it doesn't recognize her as a non-mutant who harmlessly passes through the gate without being transported. She also apparently isn't considered an "object" that could be transported along someone else… it's like she is air or energy. I mean if the wind blows towards the gate in Central Park, you wouldn't feel it on the corresponding gate on Krakoa. Same with energy attacks. You can't shoot a laser beam into one gate, with the beam then emerging from another gate. I wonder what would happen if Kate were phased inside someone, like Colossus. Would Krakoa rejected both, or just transport Piotr?
I'm surprised that we haven't seen her try. If skin grapths from Domino are enough to confuse the sensors, you'd think she would test something like that. Kitty's inaction towards the issue doesn't ring true to me considering how frustrated she's shown to be. It should be a priority for her and, as a quiet council member and prominent X-men, should have a ton of people working on it.
Lavettye wrote:
23 Feb 2020, 17:04
If it's not related to any genetic thing, maybe it really just is a side-effect of Kate's powers? She used to short-circuit electricity when she phased, maybe this also affects Krakoa's bio-electricity?
Perhaps. I wouldn't be surprised if it ended up being something related to her powers but remember, in HOX #1, Hickman (through Sage) made a point in saying that "the traffic of the Krakoan Network" is "bio-engineered to run on light and not electricity". I took that to mean Krakoa communicates through bio-luminescence/photo-stimulation. That should've made it relatively resistant to electrical interference and short-circuiting. Granted, once again, it really depends on how tight the writing across books is.

I guess that another possibility could be something related to Limbo? Krakoan portals seem to be based on the stepping discs right? Maybe Limbo is rejecting her for some reason.

The problem with these two explanations is that they shouldn't affect the resurrection process and everyone seems pretty convinced that's the case. It would be a bit of a cop-out. The genetic explanation at least would give some weight to those fears.

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Re: Warning SPOILERS for Marauders #8 - Regarding Kitty

Post by norwichchris » 23 Feb 2020, 22:55

If it was related to her powers then technically she can be resurrected. These explanations don't make sense cause if she was Neo they are mutants and think do carry the X-gene? Can someone clarify?

Why would Limbo reject her it has no reason to? So the only answer is she is the mole

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Re: Warning SPOILERS for Marauders #8 - Regarding Kitty

Post by Red Strings » 24 Feb 2020, 21:12

I totally called in the discussion for #1 that maybe they were picking up the Neo plotline, that was my first impression when she couldn't enter the portal so place me firmly in that camp. I kind'a hope that does happen, I'd quite like The Neo make a reappearance (controversial and unpopular as I know that viewpoint is haha).

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Re: Warning SPOILERS for Marauders #8 - Regarding Kitty

Post by Blackcyclops » 24 Feb 2020, 21:53

Yeah I disagree alot about the supposed contrived nature of Kate’s situation (but that’s a very different topic for a different thread) and think the NEO answer is the most obvious
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