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Historical/Factual Inaccuracies of Certain Character's Ethnic/Cultural Backgrounds

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EphemeristX
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Re: Historical/Factual Inaccuracies of Certain Character's Ethnic/Cultural Backgrounds

Post by EphemeristX » 15 Jun 2021, 19:23

At this point, Magik wasn't even alive during Communist Russia, which fell 30 years ago. Colossus may have been an infant (but also likely not).
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Re: Historical/Factual Inaccuracies of Certain Character's Ethnic/Cultural Backgrounds

Post by norwichchris » 17 Jun 2021, 07:47

Yes she was about 5 think then she went to visit Piotr in USA and was then sucked into Limbo to be raised for about 15 year. Think he was supposed to be like 20 years old as Kitty had a crush on him but she was much younger than him.

If we also consider the Marvel sliding scale as well as Secret Wars 1,2 which altered the MU reality we could simply claim it happened but later on. Always considered the main MU to have started in the 1980s.

Although admit could be wrong though.

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Re: Historical/Factual Inaccuracies of Certain Character's Ethnic/Cultural Backgrounds

Post by EphemeristX » 17 Jun 2021, 16:48

If you're talking the modern age, there's no way the Avengers, X-Men, and Fantastic Four have been active for 30-35 years.
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Re: Historical/Factual Inaccuracies of Certain Character's Ethnic/Cultural Backgrounds

Post by tokenBG1009 » 17 Jun 2021, 22:51

This is the only thing I appreciate about DC's new "Linearverse" crap.
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Re: Historical/Factual Inaccuracies of Certain Character's Ethnic/Cultural Backgrounds

Post by P-90 » 17 Jun 2021, 23:32

EphemeristX wrote:
17 Jun 2021, 16:48
If you're talking the modern age, there's no way the Avengers, X-Men, and Fantastic Four have been active for 30-35 years.
I'm sure I read somewhere that roughly fifteen years have past since Peter Parker first became Spider-Man, so those who were teens in the 60's (Peter, Johnny Storm, Bobby Drake etc.) should be in their early to mid 30's now. I can't remember exactly when and where I read that but it wasn't too long ago so it feels about right to me.

Parker would be about 65 now if he aged in real time.
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Re: Historical/Factual Inaccuracies of Certain Character's Ethnic/Cultural Backgrounds

Post by Blackcyclops » 17 Jun 2021, 23:42

P-90 wrote:
17 Jun 2021, 23:32
EphemeristX wrote:
17 Jun 2021, 16:48
If you're talking the modern age, there's no way the Avengers, X-Men, and Fantastic Four have been active for 30-35 years.
I'm sure I read somewhere that roughly fifteen years have past since Peter Parker first became Spider-Man, so those who were teens in the 60's (Peter, Johnny Storm, Bobby Drake etc.) should be in their early to mid 30's now. I can't remember exactly when and where I read that but it wasn't too long ago so it feels about right to me.

Parker would be about 65 now if he aged in real time.
Petey was like what 16 in 1962? He’d be closer to 75 lol
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Re: Historical/Factual Inaccuracies of Certain Character's Ethnic/Cultural Backgrounds

Post by P-90 » 18 Jun 2021, 13:09

Blackcyclops wrote:
17 Jun 2021, 23:42
P-90 wrote:
17 Jun 2021, 23:32
EphemeristX wrote:
17 Jun 2021, 16:48
If you're talking the modern age, there's no way the Avengers, X-Men, and Fantastic Four have been active for 30-35 years.
I'm sure I read somewhere that roughly fifteen years have past since Peter Parker first became Spider-Man, so those who were teens in the 60's (Peter, Johnny Storm, Bobby Drake etc.) should be in their early to mid 30's now. I can't remember exactly when and where I read that but it wasn't too long ago so it feels about right to me.

Parker would be about 65 now if he aged in real time.
Petey was like what 16 in 1962? He’d be closer to 75 lol
:oops: Yeah I worked it out and still put the wrong number, I don't know what happened there.

I was also trying to figure out how old Frank Castle would be, the age of most characters can be hand waved due to the sliding timeline but Frank is tied directly to the Vietnam war. I just like to think he's been reset to his physical prime at the times he's had supernatural abilities.
'A shared universe, like any fictional construct, hinges on suspension of disbelief. When continuity is tossed away, it tatters the construct. Undermines it'

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Re: Historical/Factual Inaccuracies of Certain Character's Ethnic/Cultural Backgrounds

Post by Blackcyclops » 18 Jun 2021, 14:02

P-90 wrote:
18 Jun 2021, 13:09
Blackcyclops wrote:
17 Jun 2021, 23:42
P-90 wrote:
17 Jun 2021, 23:32


I'm sure I read somewhere that roughly fifteen years have past since Peter Parker first became Spider-Man, so those who were teens in the 60's (Peter, Johnny Storm, Bobby Drake etc.) should be in their early to mid 30's now. I can't remember exactly when and where I read that but it wasn't too long ago so it feels about right to me.

Parker would be about 65 now if he aged in real time.
Petey was like what 16 in 1962? He’d be closer to 75 lol
:oops: Yeah I worked it out and still put the wrong number, I don't know what happened there.

I was also trying to figure out how old Frank Castle would be, the age of most characters can be hand waved due to the sliding timeline but Frank is tied directly to the Vietnam war. I just like to think he's been reset to his physical prime at the times he's had supernatural abilities.
Well not only was he an angel but he did like die during Dark Reign and was brought back to peak condition.
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Re: Historical/Factual Inaccuracies of Certain Character's Ethnic/Cultural Backgrounds

Post by Monolith » 18 Jun 2021, 14:23

Modern Punisher is probably a Sin-Cong War veteran now, the war in the fictional Southeast Asian country that happened "X number of years ago". Punisher MAX was still a Vietnam veteran, aging naturally in that pocket timeline.
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Re: Historical/Factual Inaccuracies of Certain Character's Ethnic/Cultural Backgrounds

Post by P-90 » 18 Jun 2021, 15:03

Monolith wrote:
18 Jun 2021, 14:23
Modern Punisher is probably a Sin-Cong War veteran now, the war in the fictional Southeast Asian country that happened "X number of years ago". Punisher MAX was still a Vietnam veteran, aging naturally in that pocket timeline.
Yeah you're right, it says on MarvelDatabase it was officially changed to the Siancong war/Sin-Cong conflict in History of the Marvel Universe (Vol.2) #2
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Re: Historical/Factual Inaccuracies of Certain Character's Ethnic/Cultural Backgrounds

Post by EphemeristX » 18 Jun 2021, 21:25

I loathe linearverse. You age slow as long as you're important. I'm just fine with sliding timescale, thank you very much.
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Re: Historical/Factual Inaccuracies of Certain Character's Ethnic/Cultural Backgrounds

Post by Nu-D » 22 Jul 2021, 10:52

ultimatekey wrote:
27 Apr 2021, 19:55
Holland Oates wrote:
27 Apr 2021, 16:37
I'm more bothered by mutants having names that allude to their powers like Julio Esteban Richter or Dominic Petros. Even Jubilation Lee is a little suspect (Chinese firework powers??). mostly kidding
OMG, I never put two and two together about Jubilee.

(I wonder, was that intentional?)

She is of Chinese descent and she produces fireworks,

However, it was actually stated that Jubilee does not create actual fireworks. She produces plasma constructs or something like that.

Wow, Jubilee's codename is really fitting for her and is very meaningful given her personality and superpowers.
Yes, Jim Lee intentionally created a Chinese character with fireworks powers because fireworks were invented in China. I suspect it was an idea he had been sitting on since middle school.
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Re: Historical/Factual Inaccuracies of Certain Character's Ethnic/Cultural Backgrounds

Post by Monolith » 22 Jul 2021, 12:47

Jim Lee didn't create Jubilee.
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Re: Historical/Factual Inaccuracies of Certain Character's Ethnic/Cultural Backgrounds

Post by Blackcyclops » 22 Jul 2021, 14:00

Did Claremont?
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Re: Historical/Factual Inaccuracies of Certain Character's Ethnic/Cultural Backgrounds

Post by Cable » 22 Jul 2021, 14:16

Yeah Jubilee is a Chris Claremont creation. Uncanny #244 is her first appearance.
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Re: Historical/Factual Inaccuracies of Certain Character's Ethnic/Cultural Backgrounds

Post by Nu-D » 22 Jul 2021, 16:48

Yeah, I know Silvestri drew her first appearance, but I thought she was Jim Lee’s creation and he was planning an arc with CC using her, so CC introduced her several issues early.

I thought I read that in Wizard or whatever waaay back in the day. But now I don’t see that anywhere when I google it, so maybe I made it up.

I also see CC had an earlier character named Jubilee with fireworks powers, so maybe it’s just the Chinese ethnic connection that was inspired by Jim Lee. What issue established her as Chinese-American? I don’t think her real name was used for several issues, and Silvestri’s pencils are ethnically ambiguous. In the Lady Mandarin arc, the Mandarin describes her as Chinese. Before that?

Edit: TLDR—I don’t have proof that Jim Lee influenced Jubliee’s Chinese heritage, but it’s possible…

I skimmed all her earliest appearances and the first time the text confirms she’s Chinese is in #258, the Lady Mandarin story #257, where a street thug calls her a “banana,” “yellow on the outside, white on the inside.” I remember reading it at the time and being surprised at the reveal. I don’t see it mentioned in a letter column prior to that either, but in the letters in #266, a fan writes in very excited about the reveal in #257 that she’s Chinese.

With the benefit of hindsight, in her first appearance in #244, Silvestri’s pencils kinda-sorta suggest East Asian heritage, but it’s not super clear:
#244 FA
#244 FA
Screenshot 2021-07-22 at 12.58.31 PM.jpg (194.15 KiB) Viewed 199 times
#244
#244
Screenshot 2021-07-22 at 12.57.39 PM.jpg (183.76 KiB) Viewed 199 times
Last edited by Nu-D on 22 Jul 2021, 18:08, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Historical/Factual Inaccuracies of Certain Character's Ethnic/Cultural Backgrounds

Post by Nu-D » 22 Jul 2021, 17:41

Her next appearance in #247 is completely ambiguous:
#247
#247
Screenshot 2021-07-22 at 1.32.42 PM.jpg (199.82 KiB) Viewed 196 times
#247 (2)
#247 (2)
Screenshot 2021-07-22 at 1.32.17 PM.jpg (178.36 KiB) Viewed 196 times
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Re: Historical/Factual Inaccuracies of Certain Character's Ethnic/Cultural Backgrounds

Post by Nu-D » 22 Jul 2021, 17:43

Jim Lee draws her in #248 fighting Nanny, and again, it’s not really clear:
#248 Jim Lee
#248 Jim Lee
Screenshot 2021-07-22 at 1.33.48 PM.jpg (171.77 KiB) Viewed 196 times
But by #250-51 Silvestri’s pencils usually look East Asian, but not always.
#250 Silvestri
#250 Silvestri
Screenshot 2021-07-22 at 1.08.00 PM.jpg (233.06 KiB) Viewed 196 times
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Re: Historical/Factual Inaccuracies of Certain Character's Ethnic/Cultural Backgrounds

Post by Nu-D » 22 Jul 2021, 17:53

It’s not until #257 that it looks pretty clearly established:
#257 First text confirming she’s Asian
#257 First text confirming she’s Asian
Screenshot 2021-07-22 at 1.45.15 PM.jpg (184.95 KiB) Viewed 191 times
And in #258:
#258
#258
Screenshot 2021-07-22 at 1.51.43 PM.jpg (258.99 KiB) Viewed 191 times
So, I don’t have proof that Jim Lee influenced the Chinese connection, but I think it’s possible.
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Re: Historical/Factual Inaccuracies of Certain Character's Ethnic/Cultural Backgrounds

Post by Nu-D » 22 Jul 2021, 18:09

Finally, in the letters column of #266, a fan is super excited about the reveal in #257 that Jubilee is Chinese. So I’m not the only one who didn’t think it was established before that:
Letter from #266
Letter from #266
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Re: Historical/Factual Inaccuracies of Certain Character's Ethnic/Cultural Backgrounds

Post by Monolith » 22 Jul 2021, 19:28

For future reference, I also would have accepted "Whoops, my bad" as a response.
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Re: Historical/Factual Inaccuracies of Certain Character's Ethnic/Cultural Backgrounds

Post by Nu-D » 22 Jul 2021, 20:32

Monolith wrote:
22 Jul 2021, 19:28
For future reference, I also would have accepted "Whoops, my bad" as a response.
Lol. Not quite what I said, but fair enough.
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Re: Historical/Factual Inaccuracies of Certain Character's Ethnic/Cultural Backgrounds

Post by Spectral Knight » 24 Jul 2021, 03:15

Those early designs of Jubilee are hideous. I know she was a mall rat / hiding out/ wasn't a team member or anything but I had kind of cast the pre- yellow trenchcoat look from my my memory. Thanks NuD for ressurecting my awareness of that ugliness.

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Re: Historical/Factual Inaccuracies of Certain Character's Ethnic/Cultural Backgrounds

Post by ultimatekey » 15 minutes ago

norwichchris wrote:
17 Jun 2021, 07:47
Yes she was about 5 think then she went to visit Piotr in USA and was then sucked into Limbo to be raised for about 15 year. Think he was supposed to be like 20 years old as Kitty had a crush on him but she was much younger than him.

If we also consider the Marvel sliding scale as well as Secret Wars 1,2 which altered the MU reality we could simply claim it happened but later on. Always considered the main MU to have started in the 1980s.

Although admit could be wrong though.
When Colossus first came to America, he was 19 years old.

Different stories say different things but Illyana was either 6 or 7 in her debut.

In her first story, she was 7 years and and grew up in Limbo for 6 years.

By the time she returned to Earth, she was 13 years old.

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