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Historical/Factual Inaccuracies of Certain Character's Ethnic/Cultural Backgrounds

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ultimatekey
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Historical/Factual Inaccuracies of Certain Character's Ethnic/Cultural Backgrounds

Post by ultimatekey » 27 Apr 2021, 12:27

What aspects of certain X-characters ethnic/cultural background did you realize or discover to be inaccurate?

X-Men brought the concept of "diverse superheroes" to Marvel comic books and American comic books in general, and honestly, ever since I was young, X-Men stories have really helped me understand and learn more about certain cultures and it has helped me build new friendships/relationships and maintained them.

For example, (please correct me if I am wrong) in Sunspot's earlier appearances, wasn't he shown speaking Spanish very fluently and understanding it?

That is not very accurate, because in Brazil, they speak Portuguese not Spanish.

Maybe since he comes from a wealthy background, his father paid for him to learn Spanish fluently.

Also, Karma's first name is not Vietnamese in origin and would not be pronounced that way in the Vietnamese language.

Also, she shares a name with a city in China......................did her parents vacationed in China before she was born? During the time period when Vietnam was in conflict with other Asian countries? Or did they know someone from China, from that city, and decided to name their daughter after that city in tribute to someone? Or did one of them visited Xi'an during their youth?

Illyana is not a native Russian name and it apparently does not exist in the Russian language at all.

In the comic books, Dust speaks Arabic. However, the country where she is from, Afghanistan, they do not have Arabic as their main official language.

So, where did Dust learn how to speak Arabic so fluently and perfectly, especially with her Mom?

Did they learn Arabic when they were being held in that camp? And they managed to pick it up so fluently?

Arabic is spoken in Afghanistan but it is not predominant. Some Afghani people can speak it but those people are in a minority. That is what someone told me.

Any other inaccuracies you noticed with X-Characters or other Mutants?

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Blackcyclops
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Re: Historical/Factual Inaccuracies of Certain Character's Ethnic/Cultural Backgrounds

Post by Blackcyclops » 27 Apr 2021, 13:08

I always took Dust, being so devotee, learned Arabic to read the Koran in it’s original language. But I always wondered why she never spoke Pashto...hers is the most glaring since she was created so recently.

Sunspot and Karma I chalk up to Claremont being a white guy in the 80s...

Ilyana thought, I looked up years ago because I like the name and found while not a “Russian” name, people in Russia do have names that one would not consider to be Russian ones and so that’s how I read that one.
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Monolith
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Re: Historical/Factual Inaccuracies of Certain Character's Ethnic/Cultural Backgrounds

Post by Monolith » 27 Apr 2021, 13:38

I involuntarily cringe when I hear Harpoon's real name is Kodiak Noatak, but I don't know enough about Inuit culture to know for sure if that's bad.
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Re: Historical/Factual Inaccuracies of Certain Character's Ethnic/Cultural Backgrounds

Post by EphemeristX » 27 Apr 2021, 13:47

I don't worry too much about characters having traditional names from their countries of origin. There's plenty of cross-culture pollination all over the world. Characters from more remote regions of the world would be an exception, but Illyana's mother may have simply heard the name on TV and liked it or read it in a book or something.
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Holland Oates
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Re: Historical/Factual Inaccuracies of Certain Character's Ethnic/Cultural Backgrounds

Post by Holland Oates » 27 Apr 2021, 16:37

I'm more bothered by mutants having names that allude to their powers like Julio Esteban Richter or Dominic Petros. Even Jubilation Lee is a little suspect (Chinese firework powers??). mostly kidding

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Re: Historical/Factual Inaccuracies of Certain Character's Ethnic/Cultural Backgrounds

Post by ultimatekey » 27 Apr 2021, 19:55

Holland Oates wrote:
27 Apr 2021, 16:37
I'm more bothered by mutants having names that allude to their powers like Julio Esteban Richter or Dominic Petros. Even Jubilation Lee is a little suspect (Chinese firework powers??). mostly kidding
OMG, I never put two and two together about Jubilee.

(I wonder, was that intentional?)

She is of Chinese descent and she produces fireworks,

However, it was actually stated that Jubilee does not create actual fireworks. She produces plasma constructs or something like that.

Wow, Jubilee's codename is really fitting for her and is very meaningful given her personality and superpowers.

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Gremlin
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Re: Historical/Factual Inaccuracies of Certain Character's Ethnic/Cultural Backgrounds

Post by Gremlin » 27 Apr 2021, 20:29

When Dust first debuted she was said to be wearing a burka. Recent years have addressed the issue that she actually wears an abaya with a nicab.
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tokenBG1009
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Re: Historical/Factual Inaccuracies of Certain Character's Ethnic/Cultural Backgrounds

Post by tokenBG1009 » 27 Apr 2021, 20:38

Hasn't Dust's outfit been historically inaccurate at least from a naming convention? Also the fact that it's rather tight on her for an outfit that is meant to be modest. It's almost always called a burqa, but it isn't that. Her headwar is a niqab and her clothing is an abaya.

I've looked and looked and looked, but as far as I can tell the Thunderbird isn't a part of Apache mythology.
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Blackcyclops
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Re: Historical/Factual Inaccuracies of Certain Character's Ethnic/Cultural Backgrounds

Post by Blackcyclops » 27 Apr 2021, 21:53

tokenBG1009 wrote:
27 Apr 2021, 20:38
Hasn't Dust's outfit been historically inaccurate at least from a naming convention? Also the fact that it's rather tight on her for an outfit that is meant to be modest. It's almost always called a burqa, but it isn't that. Her headwar is a niqab and her clothing is an abaya.

I've looked and looked and looked, but as far as I can tell the Thunderbird isn't a part of Apache mythology.
Not even a firebird? Sheesh lol...

Dust’s costume being skin tight differs based on artist...her appearances in Champions for example, it was not. But some other cover artist? No modesty at all
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Anna Raven
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Re: Historical/Factual Inaccuracies of Certain Character's Ethnic/Cultural Backgrounds

Post by Anna Raven » 27 Apr 2021, 23:39

To me as much as I love the character, Gambit sticks out as pretty unauthentic. People from New Orleans have a lot of various accents, but most of them don't speak Cajun. Even people who are Cajun or Creole don't speak the way Gambit is portrayed in the comics. His language patterns are highly stylized. Now, I personally like to imagine that he's playing a character, it's all part of his bombastic thief persona. But more than likely it's really just the early writers hadn't been to Louisiana much and didn't know what a cajun accent really sounded like so they threw a bunch of French in for good measure.
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Monolith
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Re: Historical/Factual Inaccuracies of Certain Character's Ethnic/Cultural Backgrounds

Post by Monolith » 27 Apr 2021, 23:54

They did make a point of having Gentle correct Pixie about Dust's garb back in the day. I want to say New X-Men (2nd series) #42?
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Re: Historical/Factual Inaccuracies of Certain Character's Ethnic/Cultural Backgrounds

Post by Cosmos666 » 28 Apr 2021, 06:24

As a Brazilian, Sunspsot's surname being written 'DaCosta' really turned me off the character. At least they have corrected it recently by writing it 'Da Costa' separately, even though it is still incorrect as the D shouldn't be uppercase.

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Re: Historical/Factual Inaccuracies of Certain Character's Ethnic/Cultural Backgrounds

Post by EphemeristX » 28 Apr 2021, 12:35

Yeah, I read Gambit as playing up a persona and he tends to stop when he's more relaxed and comfortable around people.
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norwichchris
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Re: Historical/Factual Inaccuracies of Certain Character's Ethnic/Cultural Backgrounds

Post by norwichchris » 28 Apr 2021, 12:43

Think to be honest they have to be careful what names they use as not to relate it to someone. They will also need to do background research of new characters and there backgrounds, well they have the internet now so they have no excuse.

ultimatekey
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Re: Historical/Factual Inaccuracies of Certain Character's Ethnic/Cultural Backgrounds

Post by ultimatekey » 28 Apr 2021, 13:37

Wasn't Dust's wardrobe portrayal mostly accurate in Age of X?

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Re: Historical/Factual Inaccuracies of Certain Character's Ethnic/Cultural Backgrounds

Post by P-90 » 28 Apr 2021, 19:05

There have been many occasions over the years where I've been irritated by how the speech of British characters is written in US comics. Given that I'd assume most writers either have some experience with British TV shows and movies or maybe even know some British people/writers themselves and yet still get it so wrong I'm not that surprised there's mistakes when writing about cultures that they have little to no first hand experience with (especially in the pre internet days)

Even western cultures/mythology can be 'wrong', take Norse mythology for example, Thor is supposed to have fiery red hair and though we've had several character stated in the comics to be the children of Odin (Thor, Balder, Tyr, Hermod, Vidar etc.) the original myths state that Heimdall, Sif and all the Valkyries are also his children.
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Re: Historical/Factual Inaccuracies of Certain Character's Ethnic/Cultural Backgrounds

Post by Blackcyclops » 28 Apr 2021, 19:10

Given that the Gods aren’t actual gods in the MU buy basically aliens, that never even crossed my mind except when people complained about casting for films lol...

That’s very different than misplacing the language of Dust or Karma’s name...
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Re: Historical/Factual Inaccuracies of Certain Character's Ethnic/Cultural Backgrounds

Post by P-90 » 28 Apr 2021, 20:18

Blackcyclops wrote:
28 Apr 2021, 19:10
Given that the Gods aren’t actual gods in the MU buy basically aliens, that never even crossed my mind except when people complained about casting for films lol...

That’s very different than misplacing the language of Dust or Karma’s name...
Everything's important to someone out there especially when it comes to cultural history, as much as we're used to seeing certain things as entertainment (in this case Norse mythology) we should remember they're part of the cultural history of untold millions of people. It might only be a handful of people who actually care but it's important to them so it's no less important 'to get it right' than the cultural history/mythology of any other group, it's no less important than say aspects of Mulan are to those of East Asian decent.

We know that it's almost impossible to get a perfect representation of an existing mythology when it comes to it's use in modern entertainment and so we allow and accept the differences/changes, we accept those changes or even mistakes when it comes to the mythology of some cultures (Norse, Celtic, Greek etc.), so we should make allowances for differences and mistakes when it comes to that of others without it resorting to outrage. If there are mistakes, and you feel strongly about them let the writers know and hopefully they'll make the necessary corrections.
Last edited by P-90 on 28 Apr 2021, 20:40, edited 1 time in total.
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Spectral Knight
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Re: Historical/Factual Inaccuracies of Certain Character's Ethnic/Cultural Backgrounds

Post by Spectral Knight » 28 Apr 2021, 20:37

P-90 wrote:
28 Apr 2021, 19:05
There have been many occasions over the years where I've been irritated by how the speech of British characters is written in US comics. Given that I'd assume most writers either have some experience with British TV shows and movies or maybe even know some British people/writers themselves and yet still get it so wrong I'm not that surprised there's mistakes when writing about cultures that they have little to no first hand experience with (especially in the pre internet days)
Case in point, the Braddock twins are supposedly from... Essex. Yeah, I'm not convinced.

I must say I didn't mind Cornell's work on Wisdom and MI13 and I'll continue pleading for Gillen and McKelvie on an Excalibur title until the day I die (or they die, or Marvel just gives in) but yeah, most non-Brit writers end up producing an appalling interpretation of Britain.

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Re: Historical/Factual Inaccuracies of Certain Character's Ethnic/Cultural Backgrounds

Post by tokenBG1009 » 28 Apr 2021, 20:44

Mythology is one of those things where there are so many conflicting stories in history that I have no issue with Marvel getting something wrong. For instance, the Prose Edda names both Loki and Odin as the father of Vali. One source and it has conflicting information. I can't find anything saying Sif is a child of Odin. And I could probably go on about how murky the actual myths are so I'd argue those are more "interpretations" than inaccuracies. Thor, by himself, breaks so many of the Norse myths that it's more calling him "inspired" than based.

Though you are right, I'm sure there are some people genuinely upset about the portrayal of the Norse gods in Marvel comics. I just think there's a difference because Marvel never really tried to tie them to the lore outside of the names.
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Re: Historical/Factual Inaccuracies of Certain Character's Ethnic/Cultural Backgrounds

Post by P-90 » 28 Apr 2021, 20:52

Spectral Knight wrote:
28 Apr 2021, 20:37
P-90 wrote:
28 Apr 2021, 19:05
There have been many occasions over the years where I've been irritated by how the speech of British characters is written in US comics. Given that I'd assume most writers either have some experience with British TV shows and movies or maybe even know some British people/writers themselves and yet still get it so wrong I'm not that surprised there's mistakes when writing about cultures that they have little to no first hand experience with (especially in the pre internet days)
Case in point, the Braddock twins are supposedly from... Essex. Yeah, I'm not convinced.

I must say I didn't mind Cornell's work on Wisdom and MI13 and I'll continue pleading for Gillen and McKelvie on an Excalibur title until the day I die (or they die, or Marvel just gives in) but yeah, most non-Brit writers end up producing an appalling interpretation of Britain.
I recently saw a repeat of an episode of Room 101 featuring human calculator Rachel Riley, she's from Essex and while she accepted that obviously stereotypical Essex types do exist she hated that people don't realise they don't represent everyone from the county. She said she's even got the 'I know about you Essex girls' thing in other countries (I think it was Canada) which is funny because I remember Canadian actress Amanda Tapping (Sam Carter from Stargate) also making a comment about it (she was born in Essex)
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Re: Historical/Factual Inaccuracies of Certain Character's Ethnic/Cultural Backgrounds

Post by Spectral Knight » 28 Apr 2021, 20:56

The thing is, I can totally imagine Riley meeting some of the Essex Girl stereotypes...!

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Re: Historical/Factual Inaccuracies of Certain Character's Ethnic/Cultural Backgrounds

Post by P-90 » 28 Apr 2021, 21:03

tokenBG1009 wrote:
28 Apr 2021, 20:44
Mythology is one of those things where there are so many conflicting stories in history that I have no issue with Marvel getting something wrong. For instance, the Prose Edda names both Loki and Odin as the father of Vali. One source and it has conflicting information. I can't find anything saying Sif is a child of Odin. And I could probably go on about how murky the actual myths are so I'd argue those are more "interpretations" than inaccuracies. Thor, by himself, breaks so many of the Norse myths that it's more calling him "inspired" than based.

Though you are right, I'm sure there are some people genuinely upset about the portrayal of the Norse gods in Marvel comics. I just think there's a difference because Marvel never really tried to tie them to the lore outside of the names.
From what I've heard Greek mythology is a nightmare when it comes to any sort of continuity, even back in Ancient Greece the stories differed depending on where and when they were told. IIRC it has a lot to do with the city states that made up Ancient Greece having different heroes as their patron hero, of course they portrayed their hero to be the most heroic and would make the patron heroes of their enemies look bad so the same story could have multiple versions, with character's acting very differently depending on what those telling the story considered heroic/good or not.
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Re: Historical/Factual Inaccuracies of Certain Character's Ethnic/Cultural Backgrounds

Post by norwichchris » 02 May 2021, 11:41

Well the Gods in the Marvel Universe are aliens/Enhanced humans where these Myths & legends are based. So it gives pretty much free reign to interpret them how they want. Hercules was supposed to have savagely beaten his wife/children to death but this was obviously not mentioned in the comics.

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Re: Historical/Factual Inaccuracies of Certain Character's Ethnic/Cultural Backgrounds

Post by Blackcyclops » 02 May 2021, 12:18

norwichchris wrote:
02 May 2021, 11:41
Well the Gods in the Marvel Universe are aliens/Enhanced humans where these Myths & legends are based. So it gives pretty much free reign to interpret them how they want. Hercules was supposed to have savagely beaten his wife/children to death but this was obviously not mentioned in the comics.

I’m sure that’s allowed since it isn’t changing his race or anything lol
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