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So You Think You Can Retcon

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Holland Oates
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Re: So You Think You Can Retcon

Post by Holland Oates » 22 Feb 2021, 15:21

If I had control over the characters.

The Original Brotherhood


Toad - his engineering ability would have been present upon introduction. He'd be a skilled explosives expert and mechanic to balance out his comical/grotesque appearance. I don't think Magneto should be the type who would accept dead weight in his terrorist cell. They'd all be at least competent fighters. savate would compliment his mutation.

Mastermind - would have had a career in British intelligence prior to meeting Magneto. But he would have burned several bridges by being generally unscrupulous to make the proposition of aligning with Magneto more attractive.

Astra - just give her a backstory and have her be present. I see potential there.

Otherwise, I like to imagine that we never saw the full network of terrorists. A lot of the Acolytes would have been later recruits ex. Javitz and Senyaka.

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Holland Oates
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Re: So You Think You Can Retcon

Post by Holland Oates » 22 Feb 2021, 15:29

Exodus - James Proudstar once thought to himself that Exodus looked Native American. I wish that they had gone that route. There's more of a parallel between he and Magneto's origins in that way. I imagine him as a possibly mentally unstable guy with vast psionic power who Magneto took from the Rez and groomed into the perfect disciple.

similarly, my version of Reignfire would have been a South American mutant who grew up idolizing freedom fighters like Mystique and set out to make the MLF into a legitimate threat. The personalities and powers of both characters would be unchanged. I just think that the less complicated approach makes them more usable. I mean how often does Exodus tie to the crusades or Dane Whitman come up?

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Blackcyclops
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Re: So You Think You Can Retcon

Post by Blackcyclops » 22 Feb 2021, 16:08

Reignfire’s origins are a tad bit complicated but Exodus’? I don’t think they’re really that odd in a world of comics and him being linked to the Crusades helps established his frame of devotion to people. The thing is that he’s never been an ongoing character in a book to really dive into him (like most 90s villains), so it’s less his origins and more just who he was.
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Holland Oates
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Re: So You Think You Can Retcon

Post by Holland Oates » 22 Feb 2021, 16:26

NEW X-MEN/ACADEMY X

I would establish upfront that the parents of Julian Keller and David Alleyne are employed by Frost Industries. Doesnt have to be both parents. But I want them to exist within similar social circles. So David and Julian would know of each other prior to entering the school. David would have originally had plans to go to an HBC but Emma convinced him that it was also important to embrace mutant culture to be well rounded. Julian would be sent there after being expelled from some other private school. His father (someone high in the ranks at Frost's company) would have asked Emma to take him in as a favor. She would regard Julian as a "nephew" of sorts despite (or because) him being stereotypically brash and anti-authority. He and David would be at odds because the latter is seen as not fully committed to mutantkind. Internally, David is dealing with some insecurity over only recently that his ease at picking up new information was related to the x-gene. And Julian, if he were more self aware, would realize that being around other Mutants is the closest he's ever come to feeling like part of a family (workaholic parents).

Rockslide - I would just establish that Santo's smart mouth was due to him being kind of a scrawny kid prior to his mutant gene activating. His physical form was somewhat influenced by his desire to be less vulnerable.

Wind Dancer - she's fine
Wallflower - no alterations necessary
Mercury - good

Surge - never been a fan but she understandably has fans. If anything I would just eliminate her being from Japan. It doesn't add much. Story doesn't change much if her Japanese American family rejects her when her hair turns blue and she becomes an electrical hazard. I'm just going to leave her as is.

Elixir - seems shallow but I'd change his hair color. Sometime they give him white hair. I like how it looks contrasted with the gold. Otherwise (and I could be wrong), he started out as anti-mutant. I would have him and whatever group he was with be introduced hunting a newly arrived Wither.

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Holland Oates
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Re: So You Think You Can Retcon

Post by Holland Oates » 22 Feb 2021, 16:32

Blackcyclops wrote:
22 Feb 2021, 16:08
Reignfire’s origins are a tad bit complicated but Exodus’? I don’t think they’re really that odd in a world of comics and him being linked to the Crusades helps established his frame of devotion to people. The thing is that he’s never been an ongoing character in a book to really dive into him (like most 90s villains), so it’s less his origins and more just who he was.
sure. But I just find it odd that Magneto's disciple is someone who existed long before him. Why doesn't he worship Apocalypse? What's with the braided hair and reddish skin? Is that part of the mutation? The Black Knight stuff makes me think that they veered away from another origin at the last minute.

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Blackcyclops
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Re: So You Think You Can Retcon

Post by Blackcyclops » 22 Feb 2021, 18:06

Holland Oates wrote:
22 Feb 2021, 16:32
Blackcyclops wrote:
22 Feb 2021, 16:08
Reignfire’s origins are a tad bit complicated but Exodus’? I don’t think they’re really that odd in a world of comics and him being linked to the Crusades helps established his frame of devotion to people. The thing is that he’s never been an ongoing character in a book to really dive into him (like most 90s villains), so it’s less his origins and more just who he was.
sure. But I just find it odd that Magneto's disciple is someone who existed long before him. Why doesn't he worship Apocalypse? What's with the braided hair and reddish skin? Is that part of the mutation? The Black Knight stuff makes me think that they veered away from another origin at the last minute.
He’s a 90s character, I doubt he had a real origin...if he did, we would’ve heard about it by now. Instead, like so much from that era it was just made up as it went along.

He worshipped Magneto because Magneto freed him...hair braids aren’t native to only indigenous people lol, his red skin isn’t colored the same as actual indigenous people (unless the artist is being kinda alittle racist)...
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Holland Oates
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Re: So You Think You Can Retcon

Post by Holland Oates » 22 Feb 2021, 18:49

Blackcyclops wrote:
22 Feb 2021, 18:06
Holland Oates wrote:
22 Feb 2021, 16:32
Blackcyclops wrote:
22 Feb 2021, 16:08
Reignfire’s origins are a tad bit complicated but Exodus’? I don’t think they’re really that odd in a world of comics and him being linked to the Crusades helps established his frame of devotion to people. The thing is that he’s never been an ongoing character in a book to really dive into him (like most 90s villains), so it’s less his origins and more just who he was.
sure. But I just find it odd that Magneto's disciple is someone who existed long before him. Why doesn't he worship Apocalypse? What's with the braided hair and reddish skin? Is that part of the mutation? The Black Knight stuff makes me think that they veered away from another origin at the last minute.
He’s a 90s character, I doubt he had a real origin...if he did, we would’ve heard about it by now. Instead, like so much from that era it was just made up as it went along.

He worshipped Magneto because Magneto freed him...hair braids aren’t native to only indigenous people lol, his red skin isn’t colored the same as actual indigenous people (unless the artist is being kinda alittle racist)...
He had the same coloring as James Proudstar, an indigenous American who said that Exodus looked Native American for some odd reason.

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norwichchris
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Re: So You Think You Can Retcon

Post by norwichchris » 23 Feb 2021, 06:56

Holland Oates is correct he actually did say that. I think this was before Exodus had a backstory in the crusades. As I understand it he was from the 12th century France hence the name and was imprisoned by Apocalypse as he rejected him and Magneto freed him, so yes think he should have been cast as Native American makes more sense as well.

Would retcon - Proteus and have him as Xavier Son as it made more sense as both he and Moira were together for a long while.

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Blackcyclops
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Re: So You Think You Can Retcon

Post by Blackcyclops » 23 Feb 2021, 11:48

norwichchris wrote:
23 Feb 2021, 06:56
Holland Oates is correct he actually did say that. I think this was before Exodus had a backstory in the crusades. As I understand it he was from the 12th century France hence the name and was imprisoned by Apocalypse as he rejected him and Magneto freed him, so yes think he should have been cast as Native American makes more sense as well.

Would retcon - Proteus and have him as Xavier Son as it made more sense as both he and Moira were together for a long while.

You literally said contradictory things...but okay lol
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Holland Oates
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Re: So You Think You Can Retcon

Post by Holland Oates » 23 Feb 2021, 14:08

norwichchris wrote:
23 Feb 2021, 06:56
Holland Oates is correct he actually did say that. I think this was before Exodus had a backstory in the crusades. As I understand it he was from the 12th century France hence the name and was imprisoned by Apocalypse as he rejected him and Magneto freed him, so yes think he should have been cast as Native American makes more sense as well.

Would retcon - Proteus and have him as Xavier Son as it made more sense as both he and Moira were together for a long while.
Prior to very recently I would have been right there with you on Proteus. That was before Moira was confirmed to be a mutant. I thought that it was a little convenient for her to be researching genetics and winding up with a mutant child. Actually, I'd still be ok with Xavier being the father, given Kevin's power level.

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Holland Oates
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Re: So You Think You Can Retcon

Post by Holland Oates » 23 Feb 2021, 14:27

Another day...another reboot/retcon

Phantazia - I'd confirm her to be one of Magneto's offspring

Nightcrawler - I'd undo the retcon that resulted in him being Azazel's son. It makes Kurt less unique and adds nothing to a pretty great and tragic backstory imo. Don't get me wrong. Azazel is cool looking. I would just make age of apocalypse-Kurt into Azazel. Abyss and Kiwi Black are pretty cool. I think they would still be cool without a connection to Kurt. That's my big change for that group.

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Holland Oates
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Re: So You Think You Can Retcon

Post by Holland Oates » 23 Feb 2021, 14:50

I think that Gorgon should instruct some of the 'lesser powered' mutants in the ways of the Hand, to build up their confidence/make them more battle-ready.

Nature Girl - my only exposure to her was the age of x-men event. But I like the antlers. Anyways, I think it would be interesting to see their interplay because Gorgon has spent much of his adulthood taking life. And Nature Girl has spent most of her existence communing with and protecting nature. They can learn from each other. And even a protector needs to know how to fight. I think her eventual weapon of choice will be the staff and maybe the bow.

Kidogo - as Masai, being a warrior is in his blood (they also enjoy singing). Gorgon could teach him how to utilize a power more suited to flight than fight. I would have Lazaro learn how to alter his weight separate from his size to allow for enhanced swiftness and agility. And he could have his own fighting style that incorporates quick changes in his own size to dodge attacks or confuse opponents. Otherwise, he's a tall guy with long limbs. I'd probably have him train with dual knives.

Specter - I haven't really seen Dallas' shadow form in action. But it made me think of ninja. I could see him learning to create a small army of shadow figures to even the odds on a fight. Otherwise, he could certainly use some hand to hand training. Or maybe he takes up archery instead of Lin Li.

Quill - not sure why I picked Max. He just seems impressionable. I remember Gambit teaching him how to steal. Anyways, I'm betting that he has decent aim. So there would be a lot of target and stealth training. Quills instead of shuriken.

Oh and...

Cipher - Her power makes her undetectable. She's a natural. But she needs to learn to fight to fully exploit that advantage.

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Blackcyclops
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Re: So You Think You Can Retcon

Post by Blackcyclops » 23 Feb 2021, 15:21

Are those retcons or more like desired story directions? It seems like the latter, which I think you should check out our Drafts to flex more of your creative muscle...
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Holland Oates
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Re: So You Think You Can Retcon

Post by Holland Oates » 23 Feb 2021, 16:57

Blackcyclops wrote:
23 Feb 2021, 15:21
Are those retcons or more like desired story directions? It seems like the latter, which I think you should check out our Drafts to flex more of your creative muscle...
Thanks. I'll consider it.

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norwichchris
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Re: So You Think You Can Retcon

Post by norwichchris » 23 Feb 2021, 19:53

Think my main retcons would be:

X-23/Honeybadger - just a relatives of Wolverine maybe from an affair he had rather than clones there are too many clones in the Marvel universe.

Raze as the actual son of Wolverine/Mystique from the main MU

Sabretooth as Wolverines Half brother as in the movie makes more sense that way

Quicksilver/Scarlett Witch retconed back to be Magnetos children.

Nightcrawler I don't have a problem with Azzazel being his father just not the biblical devil and living in a hell dimension thing, just make him an assassin or something be like a evil Nightcrawler.

Apocalypse - "X of swords was an awful dream he was having", never in a million years would he shake Xavier's hand. A terrible nightmare and then he awakes to see an angry Celestial appears at his bedside demanding to know why he is not serving evolution.

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Re: So You Think You Can Retcon

Post by Usernamenotimportant » 23 Feb 2021, 23:36

norwichchris wrote:
23 Feb 2021, 19:53
Apocalypse - "X of swords was an awful dream he was having", never in a million years would he shake Xavier's hand. A terrible nightmare and then he awakes to see an angry Celestial appears at his bedside demanding to know why he is not serving evolution.
So, Bobby Ewing in the shower? F-A-N-T-A-S-T-I-C.

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Holland Oates
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Re: So You Think You Can Retcon

Post by Holland Oates » 24 Feb 2021, 02:03

norwichchris wrote:
23 Feb 2021, 19:53
Think my main retcons would be:

X-23/Honeybadger - just a relatives of Wolverine maybe from an affair he had rather than clones there are too many clones in the Marvel universe.
Sure. I don't have any issue with clones. But she's female anyways. Might as well just be a test tube baby. My issue with the affair angle is that Logan has a few kids by that method already. I like the girl from the Logan movie. It was kind of cool that she was Hispanic. anyways, I like your idea.
norwichchris wrote:
23 Feb 2021, 19:53
Raze as the actual son of Wolverine/Mystique from the main MU
I hate raze. There are as many secret children as there are clones imo. I'll skip this one.
norwichchris wrote:
23 Feb 2021, 19:53
Sabretooth as Wolverines Half brother as in the movie makes more sense that way
agreed. Sometimes the simplest answer is the correct one.
norwichchris wrote:
23 Feb 2021, 19:53
Quicksilver/Scarlett Witch retconed back to be Magnetos children.
sure. I would have taken some of the random chance out of it. The mother would have hid the kids. Magneto would have found them but changed so much as a person that he avoided revealing his connection to the two until long after they turned on him.
norwichchris wrote:
23 Feb 2021, 19:53
Nightcrawler I don't have a problem with Azzazel being his father just not the biblical devil and living in a hell dimension thing, just make him an assassin or something be like a evil Nightcrawler
I'm good with that. I actually liked him in X-Men origins even if he wasn't exactly fleshed out.

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Holland Oates
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Re: So You Think You Can Retcon

Post by Holland Oates » 24 Feb 2021, 02:51

St. Croix Family

The Algerian mother would have dabbled in the dark arts to better her circumstances, leading to her marriage to Cartier St.Croix.

Their first child, Marius, would develop a growing need to consume life force and suffer illness when he didn't get it(a side effect of his mutant ability to mirror the genetic structure of people he has sampled). A lot of their resources were used to isolate him within their estate. And then one day he just disappeared after nearly draining a house servant (a latent mutant). In truth, the use of his abilities alerted the "magic" otherdimensional beings responsible for his mother's good fortune. They see Marius as a potential opening into another dimension/food source.

Monet was an infant at this point but advanced for her age. She'd be haunted by her brother for a lot of her childhood, as she was able to sense him when he attempted to re-enter this dimension. She'd eventually develop a very specialized psionic ability that allows her tactile telekinesis, enhanced awareness, and telepathy. Her coldness would be partially due to the awareness that her brother was growing in strength and would eventually be able to breach his otherdimensional prison. As his only contact, she witnessed him slowly lose his humanity.

Penance/Hollow - the child of Yugoslavian immigrants employed by the St. Croix family who were vacationing at the time. Monet only briefly interacts with the girl who becomes Penance. But it's at this time that Marius first makes his presence known to his birth dimension; now nightmarish in appearance and wearing a breathing apparatus. His real targets are the 4 year old twin girls born after Monet. It's just Penance's misfortune that the injury she receives in Emplate's attack triggers her mutation. Monet is forced to choose between protecting her younger sisters or a relative stranger (who her brother feeds on for several years after).

It's while looking for a way to get to Emplate's dimension and free Penance that she comes across Gateway.

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Blackcyclops
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Re: So You Think You Can Retcon

Post by Blackcyclops » 24 Feb 2021, 03:20

At this point it sounds like you don’t like anything that actually happened in the books and got some fanfic ideas lol...
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Re: So You Think You Can Retcon

Post by norwichchris » 24 Feb 2021, 10:27

Blackcyclops wrote:
24 Feb 2021, 03:20
At this point it sounds like you don’t like anything that actually happened in the books and got some fanfic ideas lol...
To be fair think we all have that problem with Marvel. Some of there origin stories are very poor or ill-thought out they get retconned.

Azzazel was a big one for me the Satan and hell was a garbage story and was when started losing interest. Think he he did appear before the X-men First class movie (one of the better ones) as I recall.

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Re: So You Think You Can Retcon

Post by XtremeOne1 » 24 Feb 2021, 18:49

My retcon would be that Benid's entire run was a gas-leaked fueled dream. That's it. Just a casual line thrown in the next issue, "Hey remember the gas-leak that made us dream Emma wore black and talked like a seventeen year old brooklyn-ite? And that Xavier had a kid with Mystique? That was so weird!"

ANd if they ever dig into why certain things from said gas-leak run are still around, just say the characters introduced during his run came around just before the gas leak and Bobby being gay was just something he realized from said dream(instead of being outted by Jean).

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Holland Oates
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Re: So You Think You Can Retcon

Post by Holland Oates » 24 Feb 2021, 19:35

XtremeOne1 wrote:
24 Feb 2021, 18:49
My retcon would be that Benid's entire run was a gas-leaked fueled dream. That's it. Just a casual line thrown in the next issue, "Hey remember the gas-leak that made us dream Emma wore black and talked like a seventeen year old brooklyn-ite? And that Xavier had a kid with Mystique? That was so weird!"

ANd if they ever dig into why certain things from said gas-leak run are still around, just say the characters introduced during his run came around just before the gas leak and Bobby being gay was just something he realized from said dream(instead of being outted by Jean).
Lol. I feel like I missed (or avoided) most of that one. The Brooklyn accent makes me glad. With a Bendis, I think he favored the ultimate universe. So some of that continuity wound up in the 616 (ex. Dazzler's punk look).

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Holland Oates
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Re: So You Think You Can Retcon

Post by Holland Oates » 24 Feb 2021, 19:38

norwichchris wrote:
24 Feb 2021, 10:27
Blackcyclops wrote:
24 Feb 2021, 03:20
At this point it sounds like you don’t like anything that actually happened in the books and got some fanfic ideas lol...
To be fair think we all have that problem with Marvel. Some of there origin stories are very poor or ill-thought out they get retconned.

Azzazel was a big one for me the Satan and hell was a garbage story and was when started losing interest. Think he he did appear before the X-men First class movie (one of the better ones) as I recall.
All of my petty little tweaks to the continuity stem from a love of the characters and their shared history. When something like Azazel as the devil or Maximus Lobo springs up, it bothers me because I considered what came before to be so well made and entertaining.

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Re: So You Think You Can Retcon

Post by Oldmanlogan79 » 24 Feb 2021, 23:47

bennroe wrote:
26 Jan 2017, 02:47
It was Jean that went dark phoenix and sacrificed herself, not just the phoenix force impersonating her. When she woke at the bottom of Jamaica Bay, it was because the phoenix force had resurrected her. Her rebirth left her amnesiac of her time spent merged with the phoenix force, but psychic trauma brought about by her experiences with Maddie eventually reawakened those memories.

Boom. There. Now the original phoenix saga is consistent with all subsequent phoenix stories, and Claremont's original intent is restored.
100% with u
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norwichchris
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Re: So You Think You Can Retcon

Post by norwichchris » 25 Feb 2021, 09:18

Well technically Phoenix/Jean Grey were one and the same as Phoenix had copied Jean's body/personality to better impersonate her. This was so it could ally with the X-Men to defeat D'Ken and repair the crystal.

My take on this would be similar to the cartoon version TAM where D'Ken absorbs the Crystal in order to recreate a universe where he is the absolute ruler and god and then after he is defeated crystal is hurled into the Sun.

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