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HOX, POX, & some DOX overview

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norwichchris
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Re: HOX, POX, & some DOX overview

Post by norwichchris » 09 Sep 2020, 20:00

We'll have feeling that the gap between Uncanny and DOX is central to the whole Krakoa story. There are many possibilities such as: Moira killed then ressurected all the current mutants, humanity finally succeeded in killing the X-Men or they just had enough and decided why bother in the end.

Kate is the odd one out there is no way she would feel comfortable with Krakoa and having to coexist with former enemies.

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Re: HOX, POX, & some DOX overview

Post by Blackcyclops » 09 Sep 2020, 20:49

norwichchris wrote:
09 Sep 2020, 20:00
We'll have feeling that the gap between Uncanny and DOX is central to the whole Krakoa story. There are many possibilities such as: Moira killed then ressurected all the current mutants, humanity finally succeeded in killing the X-Men or they just had enough and decided why bother in the end.

Kate is the odd one out there is no way she would feel comfortable with Krakoa and having to coexist with former enemies.
I don’t know where really you get those theories but you gotta remember Hickman has outright said that time period will not be addressed and is really irrelevant to him (not us, mind you, we all care lol).
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Re: HOX, POX, & some DOX overview

Post by EphemeristX » 09 Sep 2020, 22:56

Blackcyclops wrote:
09 Sep 2020, 20:49

I don’t know where really you get those theories but you gotta remember Hickman has outright said that time period will not be addressed and is really irrelevant to him (not us, mind you, we all care lol).

I don't. And that's coming from a fan of Rosenberg (I liked Astonishing and New Mutants: Dead Days). I'm completely fine with remembering that run as sort of a bad dream. DoX affords me the luxury, haha.
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Re: HOX, POX, & some DOX overview

Post by Blackcyclops » 09 Sep 2020, 23:27

EphemeristX wrote:
09 Sep 2020, 22:56
Blackcyclops wrote:
09 Sep 2020, 20:49

I don’t know where really you get those theories but you gotta remember Hickman has outright said that time period will not be addressed and is really irrelevant to him (not us, mind you, we all care lol).

I don't. And that's coming from a fan of Rosenberg (I liked Astonishing and New Mutants: Dead Days). I'm completely fine with remembering that run as sort of a bad dream. DoX affords me the luxury, haha.
Oh I was talking to norchris lol
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Re: HOX, POX, & some DOX overview

Post by das_boot » 09 Sep 2020, 23:59

EphemeristX wrote:
09 Sep 2020, 06:27
I can totally see her character progression; I was just trying to help poor booty. :lol:
I’m beyond help, but I appreciate the gesture 😂
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Re: HOX, POX, & some DOX overview

Post by norwichchris » 11 Sep 2020, 21:23

Blackcyclops wrote:
09 Sep 2020, 20:49
norwichchris wrote:
09 Sep 2020, 20:00
We'll have feeling that the gap between Uncanny and DOX is central to the whole Krakoa story. There are many possibilities such as: Moira killed then ressurected all the current mutants, humanity finally succeeded in killing the X-Men or they just had enough and decided why bother in the end.

Kate is the odd one out there is no way she would feel comfortable with Krakoa and having to coexist with former enemies.
I don’t know where really you get those theories but you gotta remember Hickman has outright said that time period will not be addressed and is really irrelevant to him (not us, mind you, we all care lol).
Where exactly did Hickman say this? rather odd? there was a lot of story potential there as well for the rest of the series.

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Re: HOX, POX, & some DOX overview

Post by Blackcyclops » 12 Sep 2020, 00:13

norwichchris wrote:
11 Sep 2020, 21:23
Blackcyclops wrote:
09 Sep 2020, 20:49
norwichchris wrote:
09 Sep 2020, 20:00
We'll have feeling that the gap between Uncanny and DOX is central to the whole Krakoa story. There are many possibilities such as: Moira killed then ressurected all the current mutants, humanity finally succeeded in killing the X-Men or they just had enough and decided why bother in the end.

Kate is the odd one out there is no way she would feel comfortable with Krakoa and having to coexist with former enemies.
I don’t know where really you get those theories but you gotta remember Hickman has outright said that time period will not be addressed and is really irrelevant to him (not us, mind you, we all care lol).
Where exactly did Hickman say this? rather odd? there was a lot of story potential there as well for the rest of the series.

Go back to the old SDCC from 2018 threads...he says that time period is irrelevant in his mind.
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Re: HOX, POX, & some DOX overview

Post by tokenBG1009 » 12 Sep 2020, 14:53

Went back and read one of the interviews and this stuck out.
Hickman wrote:“In regards to sexuality,” he said. “I don’t want to ruin that for you, because it’s really clever what we’re doing—or you’ll hate it.”
Well, I hate it and it's really not clever.
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norwichchris
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Re: HOX, POX, & some DOX overview

Post by norwichchris » 12 Sep 2020, 22:49

tokenBG1009 wrote:
12 Sep 2020, 14:53
Went back and read one of the interviews and this stuck out.
Hickman wrote:“In regards to sexuality,” he said. “I don’t want to ruin that for you, because it’s really clever what we’re doing—or you’ll hate it.”
Well, I hate it and it's really not clever.
Bluntly speaking nearly all the sexuality,drinking into oblivion scenes reminded me of the Game of Thrones, we only need to have a Joffrey turn up.

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Re: HOX, POX, & some DOX overview

Post by Lavettye » 12 Sep 2020, 23:54

norwichchris wrote:
12 Sep 2020, 22:49
Bluntly speaking nearly all the sexuality,drinking into oblivion scenes reminded me of the Game of Thrones, we only need to have a Joffrey turn up.
How exactly do polyamorous relationships between consenting adults relate to a TV series that featured prostitution, sexual abuse of prisoners and underage characters, incest and genital maiming ?
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Re: HOX, POX, & some DOX overview

Post by EphemeristX » 13 Sep 2020, 01:43

I love the X-Men orgy island.
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Re: HOX, POX, & some DOX overview

Post by das_boot » 13 Sep 2020, 10:29

I’m going to paraphrase Arsenal from Judd Winick’s Outsiders comic here:

“In a community full of people with bodies of Olympians, you’re asking how many of them I’d sleep with?”

... I’m all for sex-positivity, and I think it’s great to see in a mainstream comic like X-Men because let’s get real— If you were surrounded by a bunch of folk who were in the BEST shape of their lives and were living this value of being openly sexual... you wouldn’t enjoy that?
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Re: HOX, POX, & some DOX overview

Post by tokenBG1009 » 15 Sep 2020, 03:41

Me personally? Probably not, but don't let that make you think I'd have issues with others doing it.
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Re: HOX, POX, & some DOX overview

Post by Blackcyclops » 15 Sep 2020, 13:15

If I was a single guy or someone who didn’t adhere to monogamy as a concept? It would be very really hard to not indulge...I mean it’s an island where people not only have beautiful faces and but they have powers that could theoretically make sex amazing...

Like imagine a telepath “enhancing” and “prolonging” the experience? Two shape-shifters having a literal sex fluid experience? And then you have people with super senses, matter manipulation, healing factors, etc...

Mutant sex is going to be (for the non-asexual), the best sex...period pooh.
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Re: HOX, POX, & some DOX overview

Post by Spectral Knight » 15 Sep 2020, 13:49

I think there's a difference between being single and putting it about a bit with carefree, consensual (and protected) casual sex, to being polyamarous in multiple romantic relationships.

I don't know. The former would be been appealing if I was a single man, the latter is something that would've sounded interesting to a younger, more infantile SK (before I grew up and shit...yeah, right...), but amongst a tight-knit almost familiar community? Don't know, it feels a bit weird to me on a romantic level, and I'm not sure if this is tied into the whole 'Make More Mutants' thing, which brings up the question of familiar responsibilities in such a dynamic should we see a bunch of preggers X-ladies imminently.

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Re: HOX, POX, & some DOX overview

Post by norwichchris » 15 Sep 2020, 16:30

das_boot wrote:
13 Sep 2020, 10:29
I’m going to paraphrase Arsenal from Judd Winick’s Outsiders comic here:

“In a community full of people with bodies of Olympians, you’re asking how many of them I’d sleep with?”

... I’m all for sex-positivity, and I think it’s great to see in a mainstream comic like X-Men because let’s get real— If you were surrounded by a bunch of folk who were in the BEST shape of their lives and were living this value of being openly sexual... you wouldn’t enjoy that?
I never ever considered it like that at all just thought it as incredibly weird and out of character. Maybe I'm bitter will never live on an island like this. :twisted: they are in very good shape actually.

It is based of Game of thrones though you can plainly see it is. With what SK was saying they do seem to be acting out of character slot and never were this openly sexual makes you wonder if someone wants them to be this way or not?

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Re: HOX, POX, & some DOX overview

Post by Magnus » 15 Sep 2020, 16:33

das_boot wrote:
13 Sep 2020, 10:29
I’m going to paraphrase Arsenal from Judd Winick’s Outsiders comic here:

“In a community full of people with bodies of Olympians, you’re asking how many of them I’d sleep with?”

... I’m all for sex-positivity, and I think it’s great to see in a mainstream comic like X-Men because let’s get real— If you were surrounded by a bunch of folk who were in the BEST shape of their lives and were living this value of being openly sexual... you wouldn’t enjoy that?
And it's realistic too, because this is literally what happens in the Olympic villages. Bunch of young, fit, competitive people just bangin'.

Though Spectral Knight does make a good point that it's a bit different since they're in a tight-knit community that's their home, rather than just being on a vacation getaway for spring break.
norwichchris wrote:
15 Sep 2020, 16:30
It is based of Game of thrones though you can plainly see it is.
Just because GoT was your first experience seeing sex and drinking on TV doesn't mean it's based on it. :lol:

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Re: HOX, POX, & some DOX overview

Post by Blackcyclops » 15 Sep 2020, 17:06

Well l, if you’re re-orientating your way of life, then having polyamory might not be as odd for close-knit group (remember only the X-characters are closeknit, the rest of the mutants can be strangers really) that has some emotional connections. Sex might not even be that much of a culturally emotional experience in the same way we interpret it in a societh where we prize the monogamous (nuclear family) structure.

And it’s not like everybody is just banging everybody. Northstar and Kyle are still traditional...

Where we see an actual polyamorous coupling is with Logan, Scott and Jean and really given their experiences and their adherence to Krakoan ideology (even though Logan questions aspects of it, he clearly has faith in Xavier) theirs makes alot of sense.

We really have yet to see it carry out in other books...
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Re: HOX, POX, & some DOX overview

Post by Spectral Knight » 15 Sep 2020, 17:48

This where I think the cultural elements need to be looked at a bit more. If we see the X-characters as both "colleagues" as well as "family", then yeah, polyamorous relationships within the group are a bit more niche IRL. There are communities where it's a bit more common, I know, and we all know of situations where a colleague's been around the office a few times, but there's a bit of a cultural mismatch and regardless of sex positive views, there's associations that are made in a work environment, because it's not the physical driver of a one-night stand if you're not just working with the person, but essentially living in the same close-knit community. Especially if mutant powers like TP or empathy come into play :lol:

Traditionally X-characters, even the scummiest of players, still essentially were monogamous until Krakoa. I mean what makes characters who were previously monogamous want to shag about, and is it related to Krakoa at all. If they moved back to the mansion / San Fran, Oz, would they still want to be bucking around to the same extent?

I mean if there's a cultural re-orientation, then yeah, family might also come into that, and what is a typical family environment in Krakoa could be very non-traditional (viewed in a Westernised, nuclear family perspective of two parents + kids in any case).

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Re: HOX, POX, & some DOX overview

Post by EphemeristX » 15 Sep 2020, 18:43

norwichchris wrote:
15 Sep 2020, 16:30

It is based of Game of thrones though you can plainly see it is. With what SK was saying they do seem to be acting out of character slot and never were this openly sexual makes you wonder if someone wants them to be this way or not?
Dude. Game of Thrones is sex negative, not sex positive. There's lots of sex, but it's bad sex. It's sex through a US period-drama lense (obvi GoT isn't a period drama, but its social norms are certainly framed that way). That is not at all what Krakoa is.

If you're trying to critique X-Men's current situation on a purely sexual basis, you might be able to get away with comparing it to Brave New World. But BNW decries emotional bonds and obviously Krakoa does not.
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Re: HOX, POX, & some DOX overview

Post by Anna Raven » 15 Sep 2020, 19:10

EphemeristX wrote:
15 Sep 2020, 18:43
norwichchris wrote:
15 Sep 2020, 16:30

It is based of Game of thrones though you can plainly see it is. With what SK was saying they do seem to be acting out of character slot and never were this openly sexual makes you wonder if someone wants them to be this way or not?
Dude. Game of Thrones is sex negative, not sex positive. There's lots of sex, but it's bad sex. It's sex through a US period-drama lense (obvi GoT isn't a period drama, but its social norms are certainly framed that way). That is not at all what Krakoa is.

If you're trying to critique X-Men's current situation on a purely sexual basis, you might be able to get away with comparing it to Brave New World. But BNW decries emotional bonds and obviously Krakoa does not.
Wasn't that the lesson in Age of X-Man? They banned the expression of love and romantic entanglements among mutants, which may have seemed like a good idea at the time, but went against all human nature. Krakoa seems to be the opposite of that. They are encouraging free love, almost pan-love. Now I could see where this would also be problematic at some point, because I also think jealousy and possessiveness are natural human emotions as well. But it is most definitely not the same situation.
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Re: HOX, POX, & some DOX overview

Post by EphemeristX » 15 Sep 2020, 19:15

Yeah, BNW is definitely more like Age of X-Man than Krakoa. But I still think its open and encouraged sexuality is closer to Krakoa than GoT. That's why I added the caveat. :lol:

One difference betwen BNW and Age of X-Man was that it seemed that sex was also looked down upon. Even hooking up looked like it had to be carried out on the down low. But I could be misinterpreting things.
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Re: HOX, POX, & some DOX overview

Post by norwichchris » 15 Sep 2020, 20:14

I've never actually read Brave New World. What is it about? Currently reading 1984 which has started out rather depressing...

This does feel like the opposite of Age of X-Man. Maybe free love will bind them closer together as a race? Think of the ancient Spartans who did all sleep with each other to promote unity within there armed forces. In the long run they may actually create a better stronger community for themselves.

I Compared it to GOT because of all the excessive sex and drinks we always see as well as responding to what Token said. In fact the whole series feels like this were gonna have a red wedding soon in Mauraders.

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Re: HOX, POX, & some DOX overview

Post by Lavettye » 15 Sep 2020, 21:09

norwichchris wrote:
15 Sep 2020, 20:14
I Compared it to GOT because of all the excessive sex and drinks we always see as well as responding to what Token said. In fact the whole series feels like this were gonna have a red wedding soon in Mauraders.
If all you see is "excessive sex and drinks", then you are once again barely scratching the surface of what's going on.

The sex in Game of Thrones most of the time is nothing else but power struggles and violence: Prostitution (Shae & Tyrion), rape of slaves, rape of war prisoners (almost happened to Brienne), women forced into marriages against their will (Danearys, Sansa), sadism (Ramsay Bolton) maiming of genitals (Theon) incest (Sersei & Jamie),just to name a few that come to mind right away. Most of it was very graphic.

In the DoX X-titles, a carefree attitude about sex has been mentioned, excessive drinking has been shown, but any actual sex between characters has just been implied or hinted at - but NOT been shown. The closest probably is Rogue and Remy - a married couple - in the hot tub, and several people kissing. And everything is consentual.

How ýou can draw a comparisson between the two is far beyond me, and while above it came across as a rather thoughtless comment, to now repeat it in light of the concerns and points raised in response to you, is borderline offensive. This is one of the times where instead of repeating your position and insisting on "but I see it this way", you instead should take a step back, think long and hard, and consider how what you are saying will come across to others.

One of my best friends is polyamorous, she's in her fourties and living with one man and has a second relationship with another. Both men know about each other, and are fine with it. She even has three children, the youngest with the man she's currently living with, and two teenage daughters from an earlier relationship. The kids also know about both men and have no problems with that. It's a very loving, free-spirited home. If she were to see your posts in which you compare her lifestyle to the portrayal of sex in GoT, she'd be furious, and I'd say rightfully so.
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Re: HOX, POX, & some DOX overview

Post by das_boot » 15 Sep 2020, 23:29

[MODHAT]

Can we all take a breath here please? I appreciate a heated debate but this feels like it’s becoming a little personal for a few people, and this isn’t being helped by constant and repeated references comparing GoT to not only fictional polyamory, but also real-life first-hand experiences of it.

GoT is certainly not sex positive given how few female characters were given any kind of sexual agency, or how they used sex as a weapon or political tool, or were, on occasion, sold into a life that was ostensibly meant to be, from the gate, sexual slavery.

Polyamory, whilst I don’t understand it nor would I ever be party to it personally, works for some people, and if we’re to be real about it, there’s absolutely something to be applauded in people choosing to rebel against societal norms and standards and allow themselves to love more than one person in a romantic and sexual setting. I absolutely applaud the punk zero f***s given attitude of it. Monogamy is also totally cool, but just because you don’t understand something, doesn’t mean you get to act as though it’s not okay, or seedy, or wrong.

Everybody, let’s take a breath, think warm and fuzzy respectful thoughts, and get back to the actual meat of the discussion which is people’s thoughts on HOX/POX/DOX, WITHOUT comparing the constant and consistent abuse of sexual relationships in GoT with real-life polyamory and a depiction of a society in which polyamory isn’t looked upon as weird.

Thanking you kindly, gentlefriends.

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