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Whats behind the curtain! [House and Powers of X SPOILERS]

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UrbanExplorer
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Re: Ramifications of [House of X #2 SPOILERS]

Post by UrbanExplorer » 11 Aug 2019, 23:46

But Ugly John did have a mutant power he activated:

He made everyone around him looking good!!

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_Rick_
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Re: Ramifications of [House of X #2 SPOILERS]

Post by _Rick_ » 14 Aug 2019, 20:43

Considering what we now know of the relationship between Destiny, Moira and Mystique, the fact that Mystique attacked Muir Island with a variation of Forge's neutralizer gun in Dream's End takes new meaning. The gun would suppress Moira's powers allowing Mystique to kill Moira in a way that prevents reincarnation. Maybe that was the true purpose of the attack... to kill Moira permanently. Considering that Destiny died in Muir Island at the hands of a patient of Moira, it would make sense for Mystique to want revenge but she would have had to find a way to get around Moira's powers.

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Re: Ramifications of [House of X #2 SPOILERS]

Post by Flapflop » 15 Aug 2019, 11:04

Makes perfect sense. Although we also know now Moira X faked her death in that story. Probably to scheme her own plan after the Moira/Xavier/Magneto Schism
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Re: Ramifications of [House of X #2 SPOILERS]

Post by nathanadler » 18 Aug 2019, 07:07

Is Hickman setting up a massive twist that everything we see in the Man-Machine-Mutant War takes place in Moira's 9th lifetime?

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Re: Ramifications of [House of X #2 SPOILERS]

Post by nathanadler » 18 Aug 2019, 07:30

_Rick_ wrote:
14 Aug 2019, 20:43
Considering that Destiny died in Muir Island at the hands of a patient of Moira, it would make sense for Mystique to want revenge but she would have had to find a way to get around Moira's powers.
Claremont's unpublished plot for X-Factor #70 (in Columbia University's archives) exonerates Legion from being directly responsible for Moira's death, casting shade on another of his characters (i.e. Alysande Stuart).

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Re: Ramifications of [House of X #2 SPOILERS]

Post by Lavettye » 18 Aug 2019, 09:34

Nathan, you're not the only one to voice that theory about Moira's ninth life. I think Majestic brought it up first, and it's since been talked about a lot in the thread about Powers of X #2:
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=9194

Also, could you please not turn this into yet another Claremont's original intentions topic? That's not the purpose of this thread. It's about the ramifications of Moira's new status, what it means for future storylines and how it leaves some of her old appearances up for re-interpretation in light of her new status. (so it's definitely not about the intentions of the original writer) Thank you.
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Re: Whats behind the curtain! [House and Powers of X SPOILERS]

Post by Flapflop » 09 Oct 2019, 12:11

Nu-D wrote:
09 Oct 2019, 11:52
As for the retcon to Charles’ and Erik’s motivations, I find Hickman’s solution...unsatisfying but preferable to any of the theories we’ve been batting around. Basically, Charles And Erik just weren’t 100% sold on Moira’s plan, and so they kept on doing their own thing, while gestating the plan in the background. It’s a bit “pay no attention to the man behind the curtain,” but it’s better than “oh, he had memory blocks, and now he doesn’t, but then he does again.”
Basically Charles and Erik used the info of Moira for their own gains/agenda and now they feel they succeeded and they don't need her anymore, apart from staying alive and for more info when needed.

And its time to speculate about everything since #1 1963 Whats behind the curtain!

We lost Magneto is defintely X-men #3 where Magneto finds out Moira has been manipulating with his mind while he was in child form, i think this is the Schism they meant in the timeline of Moira X.

One entry is about Moira and Xavier both wanting a Mutant that can change reality/matter so start to think to breed one on their own: Legion and Proteus
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Re: Whats behind the curtain! [House and Powers of X SPOILERS]

Post by Quick and Dead » 09 Oct 2019, 14:03

Is this a thread where we can post Moira appearances and theorize how they can fit post-retcon? I was going to start a thread for that.
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Re: Whats behind the curtain! [House and Powers of X SPOILERS]

Post by Blackcyclops » 09 Oct 2019, 14:04

Quick and Dead wrote:
09 Oct 2019, 14:03
Is this a thread where we can post Moira appearances and theorize how they can fit post-retcon? I was going to start a thread for that.

I believe so now...and I’m cool with that too
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Re: Whats behind the curtain! [House and Powers of X SPOILERS]

Post by Flapflop » 09 Oct 2019, 15:19

Quick and Dead wrote:
09 Oct 2019, 14:03
Is this a thread where we can post Moira appearances and theorize how they can fit post-retcon? I was going to start a thread for that.
Yup, thats the idea. Looking back to all weve read since 1963 to see if the real story behind the facade can be spotted/planted. That counts for not only Moira appearances but Xavier and Magneto as well ofcourse. So the whole Trirumvirate who were working together almost from the start to plan to come to the point were now.
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Re: Whats behind the curtain! [House and Powers of X SPOILERS]

Post by Quick and Dead » 09 Oct 2019, 15:38

Sweet. I'm doing a reread so I'm sure I'll come across a lot.

This scene from New Mutants #22 stuck out to me. Moira and Charles showing a lot of interest in Warlock and kicking Rahne out of the lab while doing so.
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Re: Whats behind the curtain! [House and Powers of X SPOILERS]

Post by MartijnB » 10 Oct 2019, 11:38

how about the precogs massacre?

Shortly before Messiah Complex the Marauders went out of their way to murder as man precogs as possible.

Now...
A- The Marauders were Sinister's henchmen, and we now know SInster has been doing some jobs for Xavier and Magneto behind the curtains.
B- We know now that precogs hinder Moira's agenda.

... just a thought...

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Re: Whats behind the curtain! [House and Powers of X SPOILERS]

Post by Flapflop » 10 Oct 2019, 13:24

Maybe cloning turns out to be the definitive solution for of the whole Xorneto debacle :lol: The five weren't around or born then yet though, so probably not

Also when Magneto 'surrendered' to Cyclops on Utopia to join the X-men, were he and Xavier playing an act?

Was the Xavier killed by Dark Phoenix Cyclops maybe a Shiar golem or clone as well?

BTW Now Moira officially is a mutant she deserves her own Spotlight ON on uncannyxmen.net with her lives 1 tot 9 first and then her tenth, being the X-men history we thought we know. Maybe during making this section filling in whats really happening is made easier. ;)
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Re: Whats behind the curtain! [House and Powers of X SPOILERS]

Post by Lavettye » 10 Oct 2019, 13:30

Seems like you just volunteered for the job...
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Re: Whats behind the curtain! [House and Powers of X SPOILERS]

Post by Flapflop » 10 Oct 2019, 13:40

Lavettye wrote:
10 Oct 2019, 13:30
Seems like you just volunteered for the job...
Me and my big mouth :D :D

I would love to, if i only had the time. Re-reading and analysing everything since #1 1963 wil take years :o

Ofcourse Moira first appearance was in in Claremont era, but now we know she's been behind the scenes since the beginning, just like Erik, Xavier and Sinister did their part, so you should start at the beginning.

Maybe better to put a big team on it and everyone does as part, like a (half a) decade, would surely volunteer fo that.
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Re: Whats behind the curtain! [House and Powers of X SPOILERS]

Post by Quick and Dead » 10 Oct 2019, 14:07

MartijnB wrote:
10 Oct 2019, 11:38
how about the precogs massacre?

Shortly before Messiah Complex the Marauders went out of their way to murder as man precogs as possible.

Now...
A- The Marauders were Sinister's henchmen, and we now know SInster has been doing some jobs for Xavier and Magneto behind the curtains.
B- We know now that precogs hinder Moira's agenda.

... just a thought...
I was also thinking about that but Sinister and the Marauders had a clear motive. They just didn't want the X-Men to know that the mutant messiah was about to be born. While Hickman could reveal more details of Sinister's history with Xavier/Magneto/Moira, at the moment we can really assume that after Charles and Erik convinced him to collect samples of every mutant DNA, they didn't bother him again until Krakoa. At least that's how I like to think about it.
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Re: Whats behind the curtain! [House and Powers of X SPOILERS]

Post by Flapflop » 10 Oct 2019, 14:45

Quick and Dead wrote:
10 Oct 2019, 14:07
MartijnB wrote:
10 Oct 2019, 11:38
how about the precogs massacre?

Shortly before Messiah Complex the Marauders went out of their way to murder as man precogs as possible.

Now...
A- The Marauders were Sinister's henchmen, and we now know SInster has been doing some jobs for Xavier and Magneto behind the curtains.
B- We know now that precogs hinder Moira's agenda.

... just a thought...
I was also thinking about that but Sinister and the Marauders had a clear motive. They just didn't want the X-Men to know that the mutant messiah was about to be born. While Hickman could reveal more details of Sinister's history with Xavier/Magneto/Moira, at the moment we can really assume that after Charles and Erik convinced him to collect samples of every mutant DNA, they didn't bother him again until Krakoa. At least that's how I like to think about it.
Think so to. I believe that only the Trirumvirate did stuff behind the scenes or were doing and saying things that seemed one thing but were something else. They úsed Sinister just for collecting, what he already was doing anyway and manipulated his mind (like forgetting they ever asked for it)

BTW at least her Glossary needs rewriting soon https://uncannyxmen.net/glossary/charac ... gert-moira ;)
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Re: Whats behind the curtain! [House and Powers of X SPOILERS]

Post by Gremlin » 10 Oct 2019, 21:52

As a contributor I’m gonna jump in and say I don’t think we will see a Moira spotlight for a few years. Simply because I think whilst Hickman is on the titles we will be seeing lots of revelations about Moira and her many lives. Once Hickman is gone, then we will be able to chart a definitive history of Moira’s lives. I’m pretty sure a separate article will be required,
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Re: Whats behind the curtain! [House and Powers of X SPOILERS]

Post by EphemeristX » 10 Oct 2019, 22:35

I wonder if the books will ever start calling her Moira Kinross since that is her actual name. She married a MacTaggert and he was a jerk.
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Re: Whats behind the curtain! [House and Powers of X SPOILERS]

Post by Anna Raven » 10 Oct 2019, 23:35

EphemeristX wrote:
10 Oct 2019, 22:35
I wonder if the books will ever start calling her Moira Kinross since that is her actual name. She married a MacTaggert and he was a jerk.
Just curious, was her maiden name canon from before or did Hickman come up with it?
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Re: Whats behind the curtain! [House and Powers of X SPOILERS]

Post by EphemeristX » 11 Oct 2019, 00:07

It was known before.
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Re: Whats behind the curtain! [House and Powers of X SPOILERS]

Post by Tessa1984 » 11 Oct 2019, 22:27

I find myself reading any old issue featuring Moira lately, so I thought I’d start at the beginning: X-Men #96. Every issue I read, I can’t help but think how seamless this retcon feels. That includes her first appearance even (though her role as “housekeeper” sure hasn’t aged well). The way in which Moira immediately ingratiates herself with everyone, she’s so readily welcomed and trusted – it’s likely because she’d already known different versions of them intimately in her previous nine lives. Also, Xavier’s response to Storm (“That is my affair, Ororo”) takes on new meaning now.
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Re: Whats behind the curtain! [House and Powers of X SPOILERS]

Post by Gremlin » 13 Oct 2019, 07:50

Not sure if this was flagged up anywhere before, but now we know Moira is a mutant it makes her contracting the Legacy Virus logical now. Before she was the only human to get it, which always stood out as odd.
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Re: Whats behind the curtain! [House and Powers of X SPOILERS]

Post by Lavettye » 13 Oct 2019, 08:41

Yes, it was already mentioned by booty and flapflop at the start of this thread. (in the spoiler-hidden parts of their posts)

But I just had a new thought about the Legacy Virus. Moira went into hiding some time before Dream's End, during which the Shi'Ar golem posing as her was killed. We don't yet know where exactly she hid, but if it was off the planet, or in an air-tighly sealed environment, she possibly she wasn't exposed to the airborne Legacy cure when it was released. Maybe Moira's ability has already fizzled out and she is no longer a mutant? We've seen in other Legacy victims that their much more active powers flared up in the end and burnt themselves out, but as Moira's power only activates upon death, the Virus would have to affect her the other way around - first take her power and then her life. (or not, with her X-gene destroyed, maybe the infection just passed?)

I also think that the Shi'Ar golemn is what Destiny meant by her having 10 or 11 lifes, if she made the right choice. The golemn allowed for Moira to continue her tenth life, otherwise she'd have been reincarnated into her 11th life then .. or surviving via the golem is what Destiny saw as a quasi 11th life.

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BTW - a few days ago when I re-read part of Fantastic Four #286, I paused when Jean touched that holo-empathic Shi'Ar crystal with her/Phoenix's image inside of it, given to her family after her death. See how Reed explains what it is - I guess we now know how Xavier got the idea/confirmation that recording the entirety of a person was possible.
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Re: Whats behind the curtain! [House and Powers of X SPOILERS]

Post by Aeon » 13 Oct 2019, 09:03

From Rachel‘s bio, page 6:


Image

„ Rachel decided to take on the name Marvel Girl to honor her mother and, though it isn’t her style, she has also adopted a green miniskirt costume similar to Jean Grey’s old dress as a homage - apparently Jean left it as a gift for Rachel, as well as a holo-empathic matrix crystal with Jean’s essence.“

So that’s maybe why Jean is MG again.

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