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Story Elements You Never Want to See Again?

Level 10: In this section, people will argue about all x-related topics, such as certain character ages, continuity or the nature of the Phoenix. Newbies beware!
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tokenBG1009
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Story Elements You Never Want to See Again?

Post by tokenBG1009 » 12 Jun 2019, 10:52

I made this purely because I feel like with Hickman coming on board he's going to bring up plot threads he developed in the past. The primary one? The freaking Phoenix Force.

All I have to say is...could he not?

I'm not a Claremont puritan. I will say that the story he told involving the Phoenix was fantastic though. I think. I don't really know anymore. He had the Phoenix possess Jean, she gets corrupted, and then commits suicide to atone for her sins correct? Or did I mix the two up? I don't know. Neither does Marvel anymore it seems. Every new writer who takes a stab at the Phoenix Force complicates matters further.

So, what do you not want to see again? The Future Brotherhood? Mojo and the Mojoverse? Romulus and his influence in Logan's past? The Externals?

Why don't you want to see them?
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Re: Story Elements You Never Want to See Again?

Post by Spectral Knight » 12 Jun 2019, 11:24

With you on the PF...it's a nightmare. The continuity of it is an absolute mess.

I kind of what to see a bit of a pause on alt-universe mini-series and cross-overs for a while. Everything from HoM to Age of X to BotA through to Age of X-Man, I'm a bit bored of them now...

What were cracking stories in DoFP and AoA (first time around) have lost something of their uniqueness with how many we've seen.

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Re: Story Elements You Never Want to See Again?

Post by Usernamenotimportant » 12 Jun 2019, 11:38

The Phoenix can be fine as long as Jason Aaron is forbidden to ever touch it. He's without a doubt the absolute worst in dealing with it.

Alternate universes are overdone, I agree.

I also don't want to see the X-men living at Xavier's anymore, specially not under his leadership. It's been done, move on.

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Re: Story Elements You Never Want to See Again?

Post by tokenBG1009 » 12 Jun 2019, 12:22

Usernamenotimportant wrote:
12 Jun 2019, 11:38
The Phoenix can be fine as long as Jason Aaron is forbidden to ever touch it. He's without a doubt the absolute worst in dealing with it.
I can honestly say I don't even remember this anymore.
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Re: Story Elements You Never Want to See Again?

Post by RingOtaku » 12 Jun 2019, 22:11

No PF. No Time Travel. No Alt-U events.
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Re: Story Elements You Never Want to See Again?

Post by P-90 » 12 Jun 2019, 22:24

No 'mutants are now an endangered species' for the umpteenth time, no government crackdown on/having control of heroes, no big events based around heroes fighting heroes (Civil War, Avengers VS X-Men, X-Men VS Inhumans etc.)

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Re: Story Elements You Never Want to See Again?

Post by Anna Raven » 12 Jun 2019, 22:39

Azazel and all the Demon-spawn non-mutants.
Inhumans becoming the story replacement for Mutants and killing them off with Terrigen Mists.
The main X-Men making other cities their HQ (San Francisco, Australia, New York City Central Park) other than Westchester
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Re: Story Elements You Never Want to See Again?

Post by tokenBG1009 » 12 Jun 2019, 22:42

Anna Raven wrote:
12 Jun 2019, 22:39
Inhumans becoming the story replacement for Mutants and killing them off with Terrigen Mists.
There is some weird symbolism here.
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Re: Story Elements You Never Want to See Again?

Post by EphemeristX » 12 Jun 2019, 22:50

I actually liked the X-Men on the West Coast.

I'm so done with time travel, alternate universe, the Phoenix, and 'species on the brink' stories.
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Re: Story Elements You Never Want to See Again?

Post by Nu-D » 13 Jun 2019, 19:46

Reformed villains. Particularly those whose longstanding defining characteristic is their villainy. It’s one thing if they’ve been non-villainous adversaries. It’s fine to make uneasy alliances. But characters without a moral core don’t get to become heroes.

I’m looking at you, Sabertooth.

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Re: Story Elements You Never Want to See Again?

Post by EphemeristX » 13 Jun 2019, 20:20

X-Men Black vol 2, starring the rag-tag team of Sugar Man, Apocalypse, Sabretooth, Selene, and Suzy the Dire Wraith!
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Re: Story Elements You Never Want to See Again?

Post by das_boot » 13 Jun 2019, 22:28

Yep, I could do without seeing another “OMG WE’RE NEARLY EXTINCT” story ever again actually.

Time travel... ugh. If it was a good Exiles title or a Cross Time Caper kind of thing? Sure. But for the most part let’s keep everyone in their own timelines and time periods so we don’t have MORE mutants from the past in the present etc... certain characters like Cable should be exempt with time travel being their schtick but like... if we could kindly keep time travel relegated to JUST one title and NOT to line-wide stories etc, that’d be nice

I won’t belabour the Phoenix point because yeah, let the bird have a nap

Here’s one that’s maybe a little controversial. Let’s see less leadership contention. Whether that’s split responsibilities with certain characters with key responsibilities that are clearly defined remits, the X-Men united towards a common goal, or just plain and simple clear-cut splits with teams having specific purposes and not really inter-linking thematically or with a common goal, I’m so tired of seeing these obvious divides within leadership. Even the recent Uncanny in the lead up to AoXM, the stuff between Kitty and the students versus Jean just felt so much like a rehash of the Cyclops/Wolverine stuff and could we JUST not? I feel like since Schism there’s just been such a huge divide with teams often feeling like they’re working at total cross-purposes and too many instances of crossovers or cameos where characters acknowledge that they have different agendas and that the opposing side just has to respect that and not try to stop them which... UGH. NO. Like, accept that there’s always going to be the “flagship” ream. Accept that there’s going to be more of an “away” team. Accept that there’s going to be some form of X-Force or X-Factor or whatever. Accept that the students will need guidance. I DONT CARE HOW THIS HAPPENS JUST KETS STOP THIS NONSENSE POSTURING OF “OUR MISSION IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN YOUR MISSION”

It’d also be just peachy if they could have Jean and Rachel around at the same time long enough to actually interact and develop a relationship to be honest...
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Re: Story Elements You Never Want to See Again?

Post by Usernamenotimportant » 14 Jun 2019, 01:18

Anna Raven wrote:
12 Jun 2019, 22:39
The main X-Men making other cities their HQ (San Francisco, Australia, New York City Central Park) other than Westchester
I'm 100% in the opposite camp. I see no benefit of remaining in Westchester, it has been done to death and feels like a regression, specially when the last time they came back was after being fully integrated with the city, in SF, and then actually running their own country. Seems like the only purpose to go back is nostalgia.

That said, the Cental Park thing was just silly.

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Re: Story Elements You Never Want to See Again?

Post by Anna Raven » 14 Jun 2019, 01:24

Usernamenotimportant wrote:
14 Jun 2019, 01:18
Anna Raven wrote:
12 Jun 2019, 22:39
The main X-Men making other cities their HQ (San Francisco, Australia, New York City Central Park) other than Westchester
I'm 100% in the opposite camp. I see no benefit of remaining in Westchester, it has been done to death and feels like a regression, specially when the last time they came back was after being fully integrated with the city, in SF, and then actually running their own country. Seems like the only purpose to go back is nostalgia.

That said, the Cental Park thing was just silly.
I'm way more traditionalist than most people here probably. I hated the SF era for the most part. I consider the X-Mansion to be a character in its own right.
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Re: Story Elements You Never Want to See Again?

Post by EphemeristX » 14 Jun 2019, 01:42

Damn, then it's died more than Jean Grey.
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Re: Story Elements You Never Want to See Again?

Post by Anna Raven » 14 Jun 2019, 05:18

EphemeristX wrote:
14 Jun 2019, 01:42
Damn, then it's died more than Jean Grey.
Don't I know it. :cry:
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Re: Story Elements You Never Want to See Again?

Post by tokenBG1009 » 14 Jun 2019, 06:21

Anna Raven wrote:
14 Jun 2019, 01:24
Usernamenotimportant wrote:
14 Jun 2019, 01:18
Anna Raven wrote:
12 Jun 2019, 22:39
The main X-Men making other cities their HQ (San Francisco, Australia, New York City Central Park) other than Westchester
I'm 100% in the opposite camp. I see no benefit of remaining in Westchester, it has been done to death and feels like a regression, specially when the last time they came back was after being fully integrated with the city, in SF, and then actually running their own country. Seems like the only purpose to go back is nostalgia.

That said, the Cental Park thing was just silly.
I'm way more traditionalist than most people here probably. I hated the SF era for the most part. I consider the X-Mansion to be a character in its own right.
I'm pretty much in agreement with you, but I would like for there to be teams in other parts of the world/country. The main team/school should be in Westchester. They can have satellite teams in San Fran, Australia, and other places.
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Re: Story Elements You Never Want to See Again?

Post by Spectral Knight » 14 Jun 2019, 09:26

Am I the only person who would really like the X-Men to stop being an 'organisation' and start being a more stripped down superhero team again? Don't mind a few squads (if they've got their own purpose and aren't stepping on each others' toes) - but the leadership thread has me thinking I've not really enjoyed the 'scaled-up' era as much as prior errors. We've talked more 'leaders' of organisations etc., and I think it was a by-product of Decimation where everyone who was a mutant but wasn't a villain became an X-Man.

The number of 'actual' X-Men on the payroll (well...not actually paid, but you get my drift) is unmanageable, and I'd really like no more than 4 teams at the most, with 2 of those not being certified X-Men teams (one can be a student book, and can be a black-ops or off-shore team).

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Re: Story Elements You Never Want to See Again?

Post by Usernamenotimportant » 14 Jun 2019, 12:12

Spectral Knight wrote:
14 Jun 2019, 09:26
Am I the only person who would really like the X-Men to stop being an 'organisation' and start being a more stripped down superhero team again? Don't mind a few squads (if they've got their own purpose and aren't stepping on each others' toes) - but the leadership thread has me thinking I've not really enjoyed the 'scaled-up' era as much as prior errors. We've talked more 'leaders' of organisations etc., and I think it was a by-product of Decimation where everyone who was a mutant but wasn't a villain became an X-Man.

The number of 'actual' X-Men on the payroll (well...not actually paid, but you get my drift) is unmanageable, and I'd really like no more than 4 teams at the most, with 2 of those not being certified X-Men teams (one can be a student book, and can be a black-ops or off-shore team).
I liked the expansion they did, which begun with Morrison expanding the school and introducing the X-corps. I don't want the X-men to just be an Avengers with mutants- not that a more traditional superhero setup can't and didn't lead to good stories, but writers should invest more in what makes them different from other teams than in shared characteristics.

Plus, hoping to change the world with only a superhero team hiding in a mansion in Westchester is just silly, it's ridiculous it took so long for the X-men to become public, specially when X-factor with the 05 had already been successful in being a public mutant team.

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Re: Story Elements You Never Want to See Again?

Post by tokenBG1009 » 14 Jun 2019, 12:54

I think the early 2000s was a good point for that. There were multiple squads, each with their own purposes. I'd love to see a return of the XSE for instance, or maybe an International X-Men team dedicated to helping mutants in other countries. Both fill niches that I feel are necessary in a "real" world. This still gives you a team, or two, for traditional heroics.

I don't want any more "sacrificing" of anyone. I rather characters fade into the background and not be used, but still around somewhere instead of being killed to heighten the suspense of a story. Decimation is always going to be my least favorite era because of this. You wanna kill someone? Create a character, give us a reason to care about them, and then kill them. Yes, they were created to die, but I rather that than some longtime favorite being picked up and tossed in the bin for added emotional impact.

...to counter my previous point, stop making new characters. Does a big event happen where mutants are returning? Just re-empower those who lost their powers. You're creating the problem of characters fading into the background. The next person is going to create their own characters and potentially kill yours off. So find stories with those that exist.
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Re: Story Elements You Never Want to See Again?

Post by Anna Raven » 14 Jun 2019, 13:32

tokenBG1009 wrote:
14 Jun 2019, 06:21
Anna Raven wrote:
14 Jun 2019, 01:24
Usernamenotimportant wrote:
14 Jun 2019, 01:18


I'm 100% in the opposite camp. I see no benefit of remaining in Westchester, it has been done to death and feels like a regression, specially when the last time they came back was after being fully integrated with the city, in SF, and then actually running their own country. Seems like the only purpose to go back is nostalgia.

That said, the Cental Park thing was just silly.
I'm way more traditionalist than most people here probably. I hated the SF era for the most part. I consider the X-Mansion to be a character in its own right.
I'm pretty much in agreement with you, but I would like for there to be teams in other parts of the world/country. The main team/school should be in Westchester. They can have satellite teams in San Fran, Australia, and other places.
Yes, absolutely, that's why I said main X-Men team.
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Re: Story Elements You Never Want to See Again?

Post by LimboMaster » 14 Jun 2019, 23:10

Usernamenotimportant wrote:
14 Jun 2019, 01:18
Anna Raven wrote:
12 Jun 2019, 22:39
The main X-Men making other cities their HQ (San Francisco, Australia, New York City Central Park) other than Westchester
I'm 100% in the opposite camp. I see no benefit of remaining in Westchester, it has been done to death and feels like a regression, specially when the last time they came back was after being fully integrated with the city, in SF, and then actually running their own country. Seems like the only purpose to go back is nostalgia.

That said, the Cental Park thing was just silly.
Strong agree on the Central Park thing. But, to me, saying the X-Men in Westchester has been done is like saying the Avengers being based in NYC has been done. In my image of what the X-Men are, Westchester and the Xavier school is part of their core and to me the X-Men aren't the X-Men without it. Part of this articulates with distaste of the X-Men (like the Avengers) becoming a franchise in their own reality, though I agree with Usernameunimportant that Morrison's expansion was needed for the X-Men to grow out of their same-old same-old rut, but I liked seeing the growth AT the school (reflecting the growing mutant population), rather than X-Corp around the world, for example. It was so interesting just seeing random students in the background who's storylines had yet to even be touched. It offered so much potential and more realism that Morrison was able to cash in like only Morrison can it seems. I'm fine with Xavier not being a part of the school anymore which is probably best given how his character has been developed as this manipulative a**hole, but it is still his legacy (which is probably part of the reason Westchester is so essential in my mind). I do see the challenges involved in contriving their involvement in major events around the world given that nothing likely ever happens in Westchester but since teleportation is so commonplace now it's easy enough to deal with that in present day. I so wish they would return to the original school (both design and location).

One thing I am completely tired of and would be very happy to see go by the wayside is alt versions of characters sticking around as main characters (especially so when the originals are still around too). O5 X-Men, Old Man Logan, Dark Beast, Bloodstorm, Nate Grey, Kid Cable, etc. It is such a cheat. It's fine if we're visiting an alternate timeline in a brief What If style storyline (though that's been done to death too), but when you have more than one version of a character as a main character in 616 it is just silly.

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Re: Story Elements You Never Want to See Again?

Post by Usernamenotimportant » 15 Jun 2019, 15:41

The difference, IMO, is that the whole point of the X-men franchise was about growth, evolution and change. Stay in the same place works fine for the F4 or the Avengers, but for the X-men is a no-no.

Also, Xavier's legacy is the team itself, not the mansion. And I'm fine with him being a manipulative asshole, not only because he has been this way since the 60's, but because, sadly, the real world is full of great men that weren't particularly good people, so that fits well.

That said, I agree entirely with the alternate versions thing. Although Dark Beast is the exception, he works well exactly because he's the polar opposite of Beast and his own personal villain.

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Re: Story Elements You Never Want to See Again?

Post by das_boot » 15 Jun 2019, 22:01

Oh my god, also, please no more “chosen ones” because then we end up with actual excrement like Hopeless Summers who no one knows what to do with now except have her be angry and whatever and honestly, can we just kill her?
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Re: Story Elements You Never Want to See Again?

Post by Usernamenotimportant » 15 Jun 2019, 22:21

With a good writer, the most interesting part of Hope's story would be AFTER she repowered the mutant population, not before.

But, overall, I agree with the whole chosen one trope being lame.

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