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Can the X-Men regain their 90's popularity?

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WorldWideWade
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Re: Can the X-Men regain their 90's popularity?

Post by WorldWideWade » 09 Jul 2018, 15:52

Anna Raven wrote:
08 Jul 2018, 21:27
They are very boring, and yes they are more about comic relief and action than telling good stories. I quit watching after they cancelled Earth's Mightiest Heroes and Wolverine and the X-Men which were LEGIT good entertainment. But every once in a while I'll watch an episode of the new gen of shows and I'm highly disappointed every time.
Don't forget the best of the bunch Spectacular Spider-man. All three of those shows were prematurely cancelled (I think Avengers got one more season) because of the Disney buy-out. I loved all 3 shows and hated the Disney XD replacements.
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Re: Can the X-Men regain their 90's popularity?

Post by das_boot » 12 Jul 2018, 19:13

Okay, but here’s the thing— the teams change so often now that how would they cope with making a TV series serve as a gateway to the comics? The only way I could see that working would be if they decided on a solid team of seven or so characters (so, Xavier, Cyclops, Storm, Rogue, Nightcrawler, Jean and Kitty)— great. Fantastic. But this is likely going to appeal mostly to a young audience who’ll rely on pocket money/allowance to buy these comics. And those characters NEED to be that team from the news of this new series breaking, to the release of the cartoon, and beyond. So, no deaths, no team change ups that don’t reflect the cartoon, and then... what? You have to bank on that series being a success (both the comic and the tv show) and PRAY that the cartoon brings in additional readers. They’d need to match in terms of tone, scope and scale.

So, that taken into consideration— when did we last have an X-Men comic series that lasted two years with no substantial additions or subtractions or entire cast changes? And what happens to the other comics in the X-Family then? Fans wouldn’t react well to having to read one book that’s essentially a tie in to see the BIG names, and it’s a risk to assume that other titles with smaller names in their cast would be enough of a draw to pull in a casual readership.

TAS hit gold due to the timing of the series and the fact that comics were just a lot more stable then than they are now. I really don’t think that a cartoon is the answer, nor another reboot of the film franchise.
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Re: Can the X-Men regain their 90's popularity?

Post by EphemeristX » 12 Jul 2018, 19:23

Well, I feel like there are tons of Marvel/DC cartoons that have just the same issue. How long has it been since Teen Titans has been Robin, Cyborg, Starfire, Raven, and Beast Boy? You just pick a good cast and go for it.
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Re: Can the X-Men regain their 90's popularity?

Post by Blackcyclops » 12 Jul 2018, 19:49

EphemeristX wrote:
12 Jul 2018, 19:23
Well, I feel like there are tons of Marvel/DC cartoons that have just the same issue. How long has it been since Teen Titans has been Robin, Cyborg, Starfire, Raven, and Beast Boy? You just pick a good cast and go for it.
Agreed...
And even the 90s cartoon only matched the roster for a time a d never completely...
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Re: Can the X-Men regain their 90's popularity?

Post by das_boot » 12 Jul 2018, 21:06

EphemeristX wrote:
12 Jul 2018, 19:23
Well, I feel like there are tons of Marvel/DC cartoons that have just the same issue. How long has it been since Teen Titans has been Robin, Cyborg, Starfire, Raven, and Beast Boy? You just pick a good cast and go for it.
Which works for Teen Titans because of the massive change in style between the show and the comic—but look at the DCAU stuff— the Titans there reflect the comics at the time, within Starfire, Damian Wayne, Raven, Beast Boy and Blue Beetle, with Cyborg being a member of the Justice League— like the comics.

With what... say a year and a half to get a series greenlit, drawn up, cast, scored, edited... and that’s being conservative with least amount of time from start to finish... I dunno. I kind of feel like without a roster that largely resembles the flagship title, all that leads to is new readers picking up an issue #1 and then feeling alienated due to them not knowing the cast.
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Re: Can the X-Men regain their 90's popularity?

Post by EphemeristX » 12 Jul 2018, 21:32

And the TT roster changes just as frequently as the X-Men, sometimes with the team vanishing completely. The Avengers team of the various cartoons often don't reflect the books. Same for the Justice League shows. Every one of these shows based on comic teams have teams that rotate just as much as the X-Men do and they don't seem to have a problem.
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Re: Can the X-Men regain their 90's popularity?

Post by Blackcyclops » 12 Jul 2018, 23:02

Well itms hard to use the current DC animated films since as an example since they have their connected films (their League no longer matches the current league) and the standalones which are all over the place.
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Re: Can the X-Men regain their 90's popularity?

Post by Spectral Knight » 13 Jul 2018, 08:11

Going back to the 90s, X-Men: TAS solved the conundrum of a split roster by picking the 'best' characters from the books at the time, even though for much of the early run there was the Blue / Gold split.

So others cameo'd, but either book still had plenty of stars that you'd recognise from the TV show. If you picked up X-Men, you got Wolverine, Beast, Gambit, Rogue and Jubilee, all of whom were 'core' cast, whereas Uncanny gave you Jean, Storm, with Bishop and Archangel being frequent cameo / guest characters on the show, and Colossus also being spotlighted, and once the rosters merged after AoA through to OZT, almost all of the characters would've been very recognisable. (Cannonball, whilst a long established character hadn't really featured in the series beyond a one-off, whilst Iceman and Psylocke had only maybe one or two appearances).

So you don't necessarily need one roster that you could adapt, but I think you need the common 'feel'. If there's one or two additions in the books, will it make a difference if a kid picks up an issue? Probably not, but if there's only one or two recognisable characters, there might well be that alienation that Das refers to.

During that time, the use of spin-offs was probably better - Excalibur (while featuring three former 'core' X-Men) wasn't presented as an actual X-Men title, and X-Force and Gen-, weren't yet X-Men. I think now there's more emphasis now on a greater number of 'core' titles - often with a very different aesthetic, all of which dilutes the franchise. I think the books are stronger when there's one or two max 'core' titles. Spin-offs can work around this, and don't need to have a big-hitter to be a good book. Peter David's X-Factor (second time round) won massive plaudits without ever being a core book.

I think sometimes it doesn't help that us as a readers always want our favourites in term of roster, and if they're moved into creative Limbo, we often whinge that they're under-utilised / forgotten etc (I'm as guilty as this is anyone). This gives rise to the idea that all of our favourites should be used all of the time. Actually, they probably shouldn't really. Claremont's first run up until '89 was great in that character and roster changes still happened, but on a slower build, and those rotations were allowed time to build up different relationships within naturally.
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Re: Can the X-Men regain their 90's popularity?

Post by Blackcyclops » 13 Jul 2018, 09:36

All of that is cool too but I don’t trust anybody to make a cartoon show in 2018 on the X-Men that is as serious as even Spectacular Spider-man was, let alone X-Men TAS.

That’s not the fault of the x-books though but the era of animation we’ll in right now.
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Re: Can the X-Men regain their 90's popularity?

Post by das_boot » 13 Jul 2018, 10:01

Blackcyclops wrote:
13 Jul 2018, 09:36
All of that is cool too but I don’t trust anybody to make a cartoon show in 2018 on the X-Men that is as serious as even Spectacular Spider-man was, let alone X-Men TAS.

That’s not the fault of the x-books though but the era of animation we’ll in right now.
Again, BC I couldn’t disagree with you more here. We’re in an era where cartoons aren’t afraid to get dark or challenging with their subject matter. Look at something like Steven Universe, which, at the surface looks like a really twee and sugary kids cartoon, but has two characters who are in a homosexual relationship, complex plot beats of betrayal and destruction and slavery.

Even children’s audiences expect more complex plots and characters nowadays and the X-Men would be perfect for that.

Eph— I understand what you’re saying in terms of casts not exactly matching and I really do feel I’ve explained my point poorly here.
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Re: Can the X-Men regain their 90's popularity?

Post by Blackcyclops » 13 Jul 2018, 10:35

There’s a difference between complexity and tone.

Steven Universe (Rick & Morty but which prolly doesn’t count since it’s an adult cartoon and Disney isn’t making an adult X-Men cartoon tv show) ais a complex show at times but it’s tone is incredibly humorous. People on this very site objected to the zaniness of WatX and that’s honestly the style of cartoon being made now, at best...you look at every other popular kids cartoon (I have a 9 yr old and two teens) and Comedy-oriented is thr name of the game right now (and shorter episodes). You can bring up how awesome SU is for portraying alot of non-traditional relationships (both romantic and otherwise) but it’s largely a comedic cartoon. I mean I LOVE Adventure Time but that is not how I’d like my X-Men cartoon to be animated like...

And I mean if that’s what you like that’s cool but it’s not the type of x-men cartoon I desire nor the type that I think works just right with the x-men to make them more popular again.

And we havent even touched on the films lol
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Re: Can the X-Men regain their 90's popularity?

Post by tokenBG1009 » 13 Jul 2018, 13:35

Blackcyclops wrote:
13 Jul 2018, 09:36
All of that is cool too but I don’t trust anybody to make a cartoon show in 2018 on the X-Men that is as serious as even Spectacular Spider-man was, let alone X-Men TAS.

That’s not the fault of the x-books though but the era of animation we’ll in right now.
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Re: Can the X-Men regain their 90's popularity?

Post by EphemeristX » 13 Jul 2018, 14:27

Wolverine and the X-Men was great too. The parts that weren't about Wolverine, anyway.
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Re: Can the X-Men regain their 90's popularity?

Post by Spectral Knight » 13 Jul 2018, 14:44

Wolverine and the X-Men was alright. Was it brilliant? No, but it had some good episodes. Shame it never got renewed though.

I thought Avengers : Earth's Mightiest Heroes was a decent show once it got past the origin episodes. I thought what was great about it was it's use of the complete Avengers mythology to build up a canon of it's own.
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