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Life of Captain Marvel # 4

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Northstar404
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Life of Captain Marvel # 4

Post by Northstar404 » 17 Oct 2018, 18:34

I've said this every issue but I'm still enjoying this mini.
Spoiler: show
Ok, we pick up where the last issue left off, Marie (Mari-ell) fights Kree lady, force the Kree to retreat for the time being. After the fight, Marie tells Carol about how she was trained as a Kree soldier and sent to earth. She was supposed to land in Boston but her ship went off course and she crashed into the ocean near Uncle Richie’s boat. She pulled out of the water by Joe Danvers Sr, he believed that her boat had capsized and offers her his jacket. The two of the start spending time together, we also learn that Joe is a widower with two with small boy’s Steve and Joe Jr. Marie and Joe fall in love, eventually she tells him the truth that she really a Kree and tries to end their relationship, however, Joe insists that they can make it work, soon after the two of them get married.

Later Carol is born, Joe is determined to protect both Marie and Carol form the Kree if need be. They are happy for a while until Joe starts getting paranoid about Kree threats that he wouldn’t be able to do anything about its made worse by his drinking.
Marie also explains that reason she wasn’t’ at the bowling alley the night when Joe told Carol that he wasn’t going to pay for her college, because she (Marie) and Joe had been fighting earlier and she went to the pawn shop to try to sell her wedding to get money to pay for Carol collage. The issue ends with a Kree lady comes back and takes Joe Jr, a hostage.

My thoughts on this issue like I said I liked it, the affair turned out to be a red herring, it seems the Psyche-Megnitron activated Carol’s powers instead of giving them to her. I'm fine with the other changes as well Joe and Steve Danvers being Carol’s half-brothers. Also, we found out that Carol dad wasn’t always a jerk.

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EvilMonkeyPope
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Re: Life of Captain Marvel # 4

Post by EvilMonkeyPope » 17 Oct 2018, 22:31

So Carol Danvers is Aquaman now?
ALIENS CAN'T MAKE PAMCAKES!

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Fenix
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Re: Life of Captain Marvel # 4

Post by Fenix » 18 Oct 2018, 03:30

I dont know but I have mixed feelings about this.
Spoiler: show
First, I had no problem with her original origin understanding it as the Psyquemagnetron mixed Mar-vell kree physiology with the negabands and its powers (as Mar-vell was empowered by them at that moment) and imprinted that into Carol's gens so Carol developed similar powers to Mar-vell.
And then I always thought humanity had further potential for "evolution" and "mutations" and thats how Carol went further under the Brood experiments and became Binary.
This new origin makes her half-alien (Kree) and its a double retcon as the Kree were suposed to be genetically frozen (at least prior to Maximum Security crossover) so Carol's mom is another anomaly.
Also the whole "-ell" name makes me think, immediately, of Kal-el and Mar-vell, and thats not exactly flattering as it comes as less than original, does this mean that many Kree have that -ell surname? Are Mar-vell and Car-ell related? God, I hope not!
And also this whole mini makes me think if Marvel is adapting Carol's origin to the movie (as they know very much in advance that Carol is a kree soldier in the movie for who-knows-reason) which falls in line with many changes happened to comic characters reflecting the cinematic universe, and that is quite sad since, no matter how many viewers a movie have, the comics are the original source.
Anyway, I guess im enjoying it, Carlos Pacheco is rocking it and the story is flowing to its end.

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Blackcyclops
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Re: Life of Captain Marvel # 4

Post by Blackcyclops » 18 Oct 2018, 11:47

I mena kree and kryptonians always had a similar naming convention, it didn’t start this issue.

The Kree had a number of super-powered beings prior to Maximim Security as well (and really MS was the thing that established that against al prior info). Her mother being super-powered and then birthing a hybrid with even more power doesn’t fly against that. The Kree have an obsession with humans, so mixing them together to create a powerful character fits.

And again her becoming Binary still fits because hey there’s that pesky human side.

Now it’a totally a preference thing about how you take her origin but as the Mojo one-shot showed, alot of fans don’t really like change lol

I’ll say for me personally this one is actually a nice inclusion fora few reasons.
1) it does make Carol’s dad less of a sexist jerk...originally like it fit the era but this at least attempts to make him more sympathetic.
2) it doesn’t erase her connection to Mar-vell but it does re-center her power away from him places it in the matriarchal line of her family. Which given her history and the importance she had as a feminist icon at the time, it’s a nice addition.
3) it simplifies things...this is alot easier to explain and makes more intuitive sense to me.

4) It wasn’t poorly executed, so the change doesn’t bother me and I truthfully wish it wouldn’t be such a big deal.
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Fenix
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Re: Life of Captain Marvel # 4

Post by Fenix » 18 Oct 2018, 17:16

Blackcyclops wrote:
18 Oct 2018, 11:47
I mena kree and kryptonians always had a similar naming convention, it didn’t start this issue.

The Kree had a number of super-powered beings prior to Maximim Security as well (and really MS was the thing that established that against al prior info). Her mother being super-powered and then birthing a hybrid with even more power doesn’t fly against that. The Kree have an obsession with humans, so mixing them together to create a powerful character fits.

And again her becoming Binary still fits because hey there’s that pesky human side.

Now it’a totally a preference thing about how you take her origin but as the Mojo one-shot showed, alot of fans don’t really like change lol

I’ll say for me personally this one is actually a nice inclusion fora few reasons.
1) it does make Carol’s dad less of a sexist jerk...originally like it fit the era but this at least attempts to make him more sympathetic.
2) it doesn’t erase her connection to Mar-vell but it does re-center her power away from him places it in the matriarchal line of her family. Which given her history and the importance she had as a feminist icon at the time, it’s a nice addition.
3) it simplifies things...this is alot easier to explain and makes more intuitive sense to me.

4) It wasn’t poorly executed, so the change doesn’t bother me and I truthfully wish it wouldn’t be such a big deal.
Its true that Kree do have similar like-kryptonian surnames but, did they really need to get -Ell for Carol? I mean It doesnt only remind you of Superman but directly of Mar-Vell, being somehow different could have helped to step away from any evident similarities to both characters/families.

We had several powered Kree before Marvel and Carol but they were rare, if you think about it you can find Minerva, Atlas, Ronan and not many others. But u are right as adding another anomaly is not retconing anything.

I guess most of this is subjective or even temporary, I might like (or not) while you or others feel the same or opposite and that doesnt really makes any of us right or wrong. Like when they decided to retcon Quicksilver and the Scarlet Witch as mutates, not mutants, and not Magneto's children. I guess some people didnt have any issue with that while I still pray for a good writer to undo that.

At the end of the day this retcon doesnt really affect Carol as a character because she is still the same she was 4 issues ago but, as u mentioned, simplifies her origins... or simply adds some more details to it.


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Blackcyclops
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Re: Life of Captain Marvel # 4

Post by Blackcyclops » 19 Oct 2018, 23:40

I guess me and Northstar like piles of old s***
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Northstar404
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Re: Life of Captain Marvel # 4

Post by Northstar404 » 20 Oct 2018, 04:06

That seems like a bit of an overreaction, as Blackcyclops already pointed out Carol’s connection to Mar-Vell isn’t being taken away. Mar-vell still plays a part in Carol’s history, if it hadn’t been for her involvement with him she would have never been exposed to the Pshce-Megnitron which activation her powers.

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Anna Raven
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Re: Life of Captain Marvel # 4

Post by Anna Raven » 20 Oct 2018, 15:14

I am a little bothered by all the changes to Carol's backstory, but I'm.also not reading along on this series, so I can't say how well or poorly done it's been. I guess what I'll never understand is being so enraged by comic changes that you become so jaded. I've quit comics before because of editorial decisions, including all of DC, but it didn't really anger me so much as just made me look elsewhere for my entertainment. I get being passionate, but I never really have understood the bitterness or grudges some people hold.
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Monolith
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Re: Life of Captain Marvel # 4

Post by Monolith » 23 Oct 2018, 20:08

I'm too well-adjusted to be that angry, but I agree with the blogger. This series has been awful in conception and execution.

This retcon reads like a combination of Cinematic Universe influence and misplaced feminism. Like, Pietro and Wanda no longer being Magneto's children or mutants, mixed with Mockingbird NOT being raped by Phantom Rider but really wanting it at the time you guys. It is awful. Thematically, everyone has been so quick to point out the Superman connection that they've missed Carol's origin is a rip-off of @#$%ing Star-Lord now? Continuity-wise, there's the shuffling of the Danvers' children's ages and the fact that Kree don't HAVE natural super-powers (their evolutionary plateau as a species was a driving force behind 75% of everything the Supreme Intelligence ever did, from the Kree-Skrull War, to Galactic Storm, to Avengers: Forever).

I understand. Carol's powers are complicated. She lost her original powers almost 40 years ago, gained brand new ones, then for the last 20 years her new powers were changed to mostly resemble her old powers. Not an easy origin to fit into a 2 hour movie (if one were so inclined). But the MCU can do its own heavy lifting. And if you had to retcon Carol's origins in the comics, I think you could do so much better than this.
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Fenix
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Re: Life of Captain Marvel # 4

Post by Fenix » 29 Oct 2018, 21:16

Monolith wrote:
23 Oct 2018, 20:08
I'm too well-adjusted to be that angry, but I agree with the blogger. This series has been awful in conception and execution.

This retcon reads like a combination of Cinematic Universe influence and misplaced feminism. Like, Pietro and Wanda no longer being Magneto's children or mutants, mixed with Mockingbird NOT being raped by Phantom Rider but really wanting it at the time you guys. It is awful. Thematically, everyone has been so quick to point out the Superman connection that they've missed Carol's origin is a rip-off of @#$%ing Star-Lord now? Continuity-wise, there's the shuffling of the Danvers' children's ages and the fact that Kree don't HAVE natural super-powers (their evolutionary plateau as a species was a driving force behind 75% of everything the Supreme Intelligence ever did, from the Kree-Skrull War, to Galactic Storm, to Avengers: Forever).

I understand. Carol's powers are complicated. She lost her original powers almost 40 years ago, gained brand new ones, then for the last 20 years her new powers were changed to mostly resemble her old powers. Not an easy origin to fit into a 2 hour movie (if one were so inclined). But the MCU can do its own heavy lifting. And if you had to retcon Carol's origins in the comics, I think you could do so much better than this.

Very well said.
Any change, if well done, is more than welcome most of times.
At the end of the day we love soap operas (as comics is what it is) and some retcons can add lots to this or that character.

However Carol has been subject of one of the most terrifying transformations in the last years.
While there are some good stuff going on in Carol's last two-three series there were some others that have substancially changed Carol and how she interacts with the rest of the MU in one way or another.
As discussed here and in other forums the changes in Carol were further than her costume (somehow homaging the original Captain Marvel) or her haircut (which has been a really dilemma to me as Im very fond of Carol's signature looks and this was really radical to me).

Binary was the first of many, she went from powerful as Ms Marvel to baseline human to extremely powerful as Binary, but Carol's identity didnt really change as (no matter if she lost her memories to Rogue along with her powers) she retain her personality, we had the exact same brave and strong woman up to the challenge with a no bullshit motto.
And this is how they established solidly who Carol is or at least should be.

When she rejoined the Avengers as Warbird she went back to her original power levels but retaining those extra from Binary, and we had a cool character arc as she struggled to cope with everything (coming back to Earth, rejoining the Avengers and not wanting to disappoint their expectations, her powers fading from her cosmic self to Ms Marvel again) and how she started having issues with drinking and following Captain America's commands... but then Carol put herself back together and started over, she was flawed and human but strong, persistent and disciplined and again she rejoined the Avengers to become since then one of the most stable members in most of the Avengers rosters.

But then she claimed the Captain Marvel moniker, changed her costume and suddenly became perfect, a symbol to feminism (which she was already, she didnt really need any make over) and since then I absolutely loathe her.
Alpha Flight and Carol? meh...
Civil War II? meh x2...

And now this series is weak for many reasons.
Monolith said too as I mentioned it in a early post, the Kree were not suposed to have any powers and every single exception was clearly fabricated by the Supreme Intelligence or by accident, we can count with 10 fingers superpowered Kree and all of them are related to experiments, artifacts or technology.
Mar-Vell had his powers thanks to the Negabands, and it was thanks to the Psyque-Magnetron that Carol got a "copy" of the powers Mar-Vell had.
This retcon dont undo Carol's origins as she still got her "powers" activated in this event but it change totally how you can read this between lines.
She is not longer getting her powers from a MAN but she has her powers from HER MOTHER, another WOMAN, and Mar-vell only plays a catalyst role here.
This is just another nod to feminism, totally unneeded as Carol has evolved so MUCH and outlived any importance the original Captain Marvel could have had ever as he died in the 70s but Carol has remained consistently since then as an icon.

If I had to change her origins for the movie I would have gone for something way more classic and easy.
She was a soldier and a pilot so she already had the right background to link her to SHIELD, why didnt they just give her the negabands (making her unable to remove them or making them bond with her in a subatomic level) and then they streamline her origins...

Anyway, another awful retcon to ignore. Im still dealing with Axis...

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