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Amazing Spider-Man #73

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Blackcyclops
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Amazing Spider-Man #73

Post by Blackcyclops » 08 Sep 2021, 11:37

So am I reading this right, the whole Gwen having sex with Norman thing was faked? Sarah and Gabriel weren’t “real” but clones? And so Kindred is the real deal Harry Osborn? And the other Harry was a clone too?
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Holland Oates
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Re: Amazing Spider-Man #73

Post by Holland Oates » 08 Sep 2021, 23:35

Gabe and his sister were definitely grown in vats. Not sure who they'd be clones of. I'm still unclear on Stromm's role. And things got muddier when Kindred started morphing faces. Why bother telling MJ that story as Sarah?

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Blackcyclops
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Re: Amazing Spider-Man #73

Post by Blackcyclops » 09 Sep 2021, 02:47

I meant they were clones because they were copied over and over again, not that they were cloned from a person.

Kindred was using Sarah’s face because Kindred is using Sarah’s body…Kindred seems to be the soul of Harry Osborn in the body of Sarah. At least that’s what I got…
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Holland Oates
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Re: Amazing Spider-Man #73

Post by Holland Oates » 10 Sep 2021, 00:19

Blackcyclops wrote:
09 Sep 2021, 02:47
I meant they were clones because they were copied over and over again, not that they were cloned from a person.

Kindred was using Sarah’s face because Kindred is using Sarah’s body…Kindred seems to be the soul of Harry Osborn in the body of Sarah. At least that’s what I got…
That'll do for an explanation until Spencer reveals all. This all seems overly elaborate, especially after the American Son storyline.

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Blackcyclops
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Re: Amazing Spider-Man #73

Post by Blackcyclops » 10 Sep 2021, 00:34

Idk, I appreciate Spencer just getting rid of a story that I felt was bad and useless…so far I’m here for the ride.
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Holland Oates
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Re: Amazing Spider-Man #73

Post by Holland Oates » 11 Sep 2021, 03:36

I'll wait until I learn Harry's fate before deciding. I'm all for cleaning up continuity. But there's still a lot that hasn't been explained.

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Cable
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Re: Amazing Spider-Man #73

Post by Cable » 11 Sep 2021, 17:02

I have really hated the last two issues. I thought the Kindred reveal was disappointing before, but this epic run is really ending up as a dumpster fire now.
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WorldWideWade
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Re: Amazing Spider-Man #73

Post by WorldWideWade » 13 Sep 2021, 14:57

I think I said in a previous thread that the continuity felt too heavy in the last few issues. He seems to be using this opportunity to purge Spider-man's history of some bad and disliked stories, but is it really worth ending his 75+ issue run reminding us of all of this trash continuity. Probably better to have just left it forgotten.

My major problem with this ending is that someone who jumped onto Spidey during Spencer's run will have no idea what the hell is happening because all of these reveals are from story arcs so long ago. Even I have read many of these past stories and can't seem to keep it all together. I think he should have focused on just the material he was writing during his run and not introduce all of this stuff last minute. It makes for an incomprehensible mess if you just look at his run as a whole.
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Blackcyclops
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Re: Amazing Spider-Man #73

Post by Blackcyclops » 13 Sep 2021, 15:10

I never thought too much continuity would be seen as a problem around these parts lol…
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XtremeOne1
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Re: Amazing Spider-Man #73

Post by XtremeOne1 » 14 Sep 2021, 14:34

Not reading this but...are they doing anything OMD? I thought I heard this was touching on that

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Blackcyclops
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Re: Amazing Spider-Man #73

Post by Blackcyclops » 14 Sep 2021, 14:36

XtremeOne1 wrote:
14 Sep 2021, 14:34
Not reading this but...are they doing anything OMD? I thought I heard this was touching on that

It might…at this point it feels like it is but not fully acknowledged yet.

Unlike the rest I appreciate Spencer undoing or fixing some of these very s***ty storylines. Like what he did to Sins Past? Pretty close to what I would’ve done honestly…I don’t like ignoring bad stories and rather they be fixed.
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tokenBG1009
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Re: Amazing Spider-Man #73

Post by tokenBG1009 » 14 Sep 2021, 14:46

Word, undoing Sins Past was a great decision. It's a story that never should have happened once Marvel axed the idea of them being Peter's kids.

Where are Peter and MJ relationship wise at this point?
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Re: Amazing Spider-Man #73

Post by Cable » 14 Sep 2021, 14:58

I remember reading J Michael Stracynzski's Spider-Man run and being impressed with just how different it was. The way Marvel has scrubbed most of it away in favor of a much more generic and sanitized Spidey is a real shame.
XtremeOne1 wrote:
14 Sep 2021, 14:34
Not reading this but...are they doing anything OMD? I thought I heard this was touching on that
They haven't really touched OMD but instead have created an almost identical storyline for Norman Osborn where he also made a deal with Mephisto.

Norman Osborn has always been the premiere Spidey villain but I really feel like this whole storyline has been a diminishment of the character. It is unfortunate to see.
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Blackcyclops
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Re: Amazing Spider-Man #73

Post by Blackcyclops » 14 Sep 2021, 17:10

How can one dislike OMD but have such a positive view of Sins Past? One is a “terrible decision” story and the other is a “terrible retcon about a terrible decision” story…both horrible stories. Like that boggles my mind…but I’m also not someone who sees Spidey at this current point (through all of Slott’s classic run) as “sanitized”.

@Cable: I’m curious about why you see this story as diminishing Norman? Or are you talking about all the stories by Spencer about Norman?

And like Token the story makes wayyy more sense if they’re Peter’s kids…
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Re: Amazing Spider-Man #73

Post by Cable » 14 Sep 2021, 17:35

Blackcyclops wrote:
14 Sep 2021, 17:10
How can one dislike OMD but have such a positive view of Sins Past? One is a “terrible decision” story and the other is a “terrible retcon about a terrible decision” story…both horrible stories. Like that boggles my mind…but I’m also not someone who sees Spidey at this current point (through all of Slott’s classic run) as “sanitized”.

@Cable: I’m curious about why you see this story as diminishing Norman? Or are you talking about all the stories by Spencer about Norman?

And like Token the story makes wayyy more sense if they’re Peter’s kids…
Is Sins Past a retcon? I know you are a stickler about the definition lol

But anyway OMD isn't really that bad for what happens (though what happens is bad!), it is so terrible to me because of the way that it resets the character and does so in a manner that doesn't even make sense. Sins Past doesn't do anything like that and in fact adds complexity to the characters. Spencer wipes away that complexity and I think it is likely because the surging popularity of Spider-Gwen has led to a desire to reduce 616 Stacy back to a simpler (and as I said 'sanitized') version.

Norman Osborn is greatly diminished by the events of last issue where his rise isn't due to any initiative on his own part but rather by making a deal with the devil. Mephisto is basically the big bad of Spidey now instead of Green Goblin and that is imo super lame.
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X-titles: X-Force #23 by Benjamin Percy (6) and Martin Coccolo (1)
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Blackcyclops
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Re: Amazing Spider-Man #73

Post by Blackcyclops » 14 Sep 2021, 20:17

Complexity doesn’t always equate to good story telling. Wolverine Originals the series added complexity to Wolverine, some good and some bad but just because it was complex doesn’t make it good. That story, besides being a bar story overall, added nothing to Gwen that really helped her character imo. All it did was play adult by having her a torrid sexual relationship with Norman Osborn in Europe…
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XtremeOne1
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Re: Amazing Spider-Man #73

Post by XtremeOne1 » 14 Sep 2021, 20:35

Blackcyclops wrote:
14 Sep 2021, 20:17
Complexity doesn’t always equate to good story telling. Wolverine Originals the series added complexity to Wolverine, some good and some bad but just because it was complex doesn’t make it good. That story, besides being a bar story overall, added nothing to Gwen that really helped her character imo. All it did was play adult by having her a torrid sexual relationship with Norman Osborn in Europe…

Eh having a torrid affair with your friend's parent is a pretty rancid and awful thing to do, especially if that guy is Norma Osborn. A torrid affair would be her and Harry Osborn. This was....something else.

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Re: Amazing Spider-Man #73

Post by Cable » 14 Sep 2021, 20:45

Spider-Man comics from the beginning have been about a superhero that is relatable to everyday life, and people having messy personal/sexual histories is perfectly in that vein. The fact that it turned people's stomachs is precisely part of the reason it was such a good plot point: imagine how it made PETER feel. That is visceral storytelling! Too often we want heroes or their love interests in comics to be perfect two-dimensional archetypes; that story made Gwen something more real than that.
Best Comics of Week 36

X-titles: X-Force #23 by Benjamin Percy (6) and Martin Coccolo (1)
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tokenBG1009
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Re: Amazing Spider-Man #73

Post by tokenBG1009 » 15 Sep 2021, 00:01

Cable wrote:
14 Sep 2021, 20:45
Spider-Man comics from the beginning have been about a superhero that is relatable to everyday life, and people having messy personal/sexual histories is perfectly in that vein. The fact that it turned people's stomachs is precisely part of the reason it was such a good plot point: imagine how it made PETER feel. That is visceral storytelling! Too often we want heroes or their love interests in comics to be perfect two-dimensional archetypes; that story made Gwen something more real than that.
That's a HARD disagree.

I don't personally give two shits about Gwen Stacy so the whole "Oh no! Peter's first love cheated on him with his worst enemy!" doesn't really bother me. What bothers me is the story just wasn't good and made no sense.

This also inches into that "grown up ideas" territory that I see a lot of people think make comics better. I've known you long enough to not really think that of you, but having Gwen cheat on Peter, or the real problem of having Gwen sleep with Norman, doesn't make the story better.
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