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Thor #3

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totaldarknessin
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Joined: 08 Apr 2007, 03:07

Thor #3

Post by totaldarknessin » 13 Feb 2020, 02:30

Spoilers!!!, but I'll try to keep it to a minimum

It's not a bad book per say. There is lots of action. My 10 year old self would have love it just like X-Force in 91. What bugs me though is consistency and characterization.

1. After the whole not worthy episode of Thor for the past few years; he of all people should be keenly aware of actions which may make him become unworthy. Whether he needs to be worthy or not is a question as the all father, since traditionally Odin had full control over Mjolnir including instantly making thor unable to wield it; but with recent changes to how Mjolnir work, it would seem that now it will always require worthiness All father or not. With that said, the dialogue here definitely has Thor looking like he is the villain.

2. It would seem like an Action book of yesteryear, they simply wanted some key heavy hitters in the story so they found themselves in the book. For example, That super duper planet from the previous issue was like unknown and hidden to a being that is >13 billion years old in Galactus; he is finally steerd there, and feeds... but yet; Beta Ray Bill conveniently is there as well. What are the chances??

3. Galactus is solar system, maybe Galactic (by his name) level threat; some would even say universal level threat, though he has never showed that type of power. During annihilation story; an enrage galactus's power destroyed 3 star systems and all of their planets and moons and it was still growing for sure a multi-solar system level threat. The All Father Odin and other Sky Fathers, which Thor is now one of them are at most a planetary level threat; but never more than that. Adding a herald's level of power doesn't make you become a multi-star system, perhaps galaxy level of threat; after all in his debut for example was knocked unconscious by Thing's punch. There are also numerous other occasions where heralds are beaten by people well below even planetary level threats, so while it's a power boost. It's not that much of a power boost. Galactus now just had the biggest feed of his life...yet JOBBED to Thor yet again. We all know the power cosmic is part and parcel to Galactus ONLY, yet it's always stolen from him, or people have use it against him. I don't get it. He always only give a minute fraction of his power to heralds, but the stories seem to think otherwise and this is no different.

4. Does the new rainbow bridge have universal reach now???

5. In same Story of Galactus Jobbing to Thor; Allfather Thor (minus use of power cosmic) seems to have difficulty against his adversary. Again; Odin with allfather powers is far more powerful than base thor. Base thor was essentially equal to his adversary in this book; but now Allfather thor seem to struggle more than he should have.

6. Though by his actions it seem somewhat necessary; but a newly crown allfather must have better support than this. His own subject is already going against Thor. That was quick. you would think a new alfather, a job that typically spans tens of thousands of years, perspective wise, he has been the allfather for like seconds, but yet, people have already mistrust him enough to go against him.

In summary, good action book; characterization is off, power scaling is way off. Hopefully the next few book sheds some light in where this is going.

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Blackcyclops
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Re: Thor #3

Post by Blackcyclops » 13 Feb 2020, 02:39

I really liked the issue...that other stuff, yeah lol
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Cable
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Re: Thor #3

Post by Cable » 14 Feb 2020, 19:16

totaldarknessin wrote:
13 Feb 2020, 02:30
Spoilers!!!, but I'll try to keep it to a minimum

It's not a bad book per say. There is lots of action. My 10 year old self would have love it just like X-Force in 91. What bugs me though is consistency and characterization.

1. After the whole not worthy episode of Thor for the past few years; he of all people should be keenly aware of actions which may make him become unworthy. Whether he needs to be worthy or not is a question as the all father, since traditionally Odin had full control over Mjolnir including instantly making thor unable to wield it; but with recent changes to how Mjolnir work, it would seem that now it will always require worthiness All father or not. With that said, the dialogue here definitely has Thor looking like he is the villain.

2. It would seem like an Action book of yesteryear, they simply wanted some key heavy hitters in the story so they found themselves in the book. For example, That super duper planet from the previous issue was like unknown and hidden to a being that is >13 billion years old in Galactus; he is finally steerd there, and feeds... but yet; Beta Ray Bill conveniently is there as well. What are the chances??

3. Galactus is solar system, maybe Galactic (by his name) level threat; some would even say universal level threat, though he has never showed that type of power. During annihilation story; an enrage galactus's power destroyed 3 star systems and all of their planets and moons and it was still growing for sure a multi-solar system level threat. The All Father Odin and other Sky Fathers, which Thor is now one of them are at most a planetary level threat; but never more than that. Adding a herald's level of power doesn't make you become a multi-star system, perhaps galaxy level of threat; after all in his debut for example was knocked unconscious by Thing's punch. There are also numerous other occasions where heralds are beaten by people well below even planetary level threats, so while it's a power boost. It's not that much of a power boost. Galactus now just had the biggest feed of his life...yet JOBBED to Thor yet again. We all know the power cosmic is part and parcel to Galactus ONLY, yet it's always stolen from him, or people have use it against him. I don't get it. He always only give a minute fraction of his power to heralds, but the stories seem to think otherwise and this is no different.

4. Does the new rainbow bridge have universal reach now???

5. In same Story of Galactus Jobbing to Thor; Allfather Thor (minus use of power cosmic) seems to have difficulty against his adversary. Again; Odin with allfather powers is far more powerful than base thor. Base thor was essentially equal to his adversary in this book; but now Allfather thor seem to struggle more than he should have.

6. Though by his actions it seem somewhat necessary; but a newly crown allfather must have better support than this. His own subject is already going against Thor. That was quick. you would think a new alfather, a job that typically spans tens of thousands of years, perspective wise, he has been the allfather for like seconds, but yet, people have already mistrust him enough to go against him.

In summary, good action book; characterization is off, power scaling is way off. Hopefully the next few book sheds some light in where this is going.
I never got the impression that Thor was a villain here. Just that he made a difficult decision and one that Beta Ray Bill does not understand because he does not know the circumstances behind it. And the reason Thor 'struggles' against BRB is because he deliberately powers himself down as the Herald (he is no longer in his white-hair Super Saiyan form). He refuses to use the Power Cosmic against Bill. Because again, he is not a bad guy. He is just doing what he thinks he has to in order to save everyone.

And it should be said: Nic Klein is absolutely killing it on this book. Amazing art.
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Blackcyclops
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Re: Thor #3

Post by Blackcyclops » 14 Feb 2020, 19:44

The art here is soooo amazing...I was worried coming off such great art before but damn if Thor hasn’t consistently had some of the best art since JMS brought him back
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Anna Raven
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Re: Thor #3

Post by Anna Raven » 14 Feb 2020, 19:46

I don't think Thor is a villain, but it's like OP said in his first paragraph, Thor should be more aware of behaviors that are going to regress him back to where he was at the beginning of Aaron's run. Thor might truly believe he needs to feed some planets to Galactus to stop this bigger threat, but he should explain himself with words to Bill, not immediately resort to violence. I know this is a "classic superhero misunderstanding" trope, but I truly believe Aaron's Thor had evolved to be better than what he is showing here. It's not that Cates' writing is bad, it's just we've had one version of Thor for so long, and we are now being shown another, somewhat conflicting version, and it's jarring. And not quite as thoughtful.
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Blackcyclops
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Re: Thor #3

Post by Blackcyclops » 14 Feb 2020, 19:57

Or, not saying you’re wrong, by becoming King he’s inherited the same arrogance of Odin (and sometimes demonstrated by King Thor in the future)? That he feels it’s better to act first because it is up to him to save it all...again more like the person King Thor would act like at times.
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Anna Raven
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Re: Thor #3

Post by Anna Raven » 14 Feb 2020, 20:26

Blackcyclops wrote:
14 Feb 2020, 19:57
Or, not saying you’re wrong, by becoming King he’s inherited the same arrogance of Odin (and sometimes demonstrated by King Thor in the future)? That he feels it’s better to act first because it is up to him to save it all...again more like the person King Thor would act like at times.
I don't know if he's somehow magically inherited Odin's arrogance, or if Cates is saying that when you are King, the buck stops at you, and you are put in a position of having to make tougher calls and consider the greater good more often, which causes you to compromise little by little. I appreciate the sentiment, it's an interesting story to tell. But in my mind, Thor would have resisted the urge to make those compromises a little longer than say the first day on the job. I think a far more interesting story arc would be: Thor becomes King -> Thor is presented with a major moral dilemma -> Thor behaves like the noble Thor we knew under Aaron -> This causes a huge complication -> Thor begins to recognize why his father was the way he was -> another moral dilemma is presented -> Thor begins to compromise and his worthiness begins to slip away.

Instead, Cates skips right to the end. I don't know if it's because he feels like he's not going to be on the title long enough to play the long game I listed above, or if he just finds it boring, but either way, it feels kind of cheap to be skipping so many steps.
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Blackcyclops
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Re: Thor #3

Post by Blackcyclops » 14 Feb 2020, 21:22

He’s been on the day longer than one day...given his look in issue 1, it felt like Thor was in the routine of being king.

I mean I see what you’re saying but there’s a part of me that sees Thor’s actions in the context of him 1)wanting action and 2)him being arrogant as King...

He did try to talk to BRB but Bill felt like he had to save Thor (like he did during thr Warrior Madness era).
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Anna Raven
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Re: Thor #3

Post by Anna Raven » 14 Feb 2020, 21:49

Blackcyclops wrote:
14 Feb 2020, 21:22
He’s been on the day longer than one day...given his look in issue 1, it felt like Thor was in the routine of being king.

I mean I see what you’re saying but there’s a part of me that sees Thor’s actions in the context of him 1)wanting action and 2)him being arrogant as King...

He did try to talk to BRB but Bill felt like he had to save Thor (like he did during thr Warrior Madness era).
I was using hyperbole as far as "Day 1", but if this isn't fairly early on during his Kingship, then my criticism still stands that he's skipping over critical build up before he gets to be jaded and willing to compromise.

BRB is coming in hot, that's for sure. My critique is how Thor responds, which is that he seems to be eager for battle and ready to throw down. He takes offense that BRB would suggest he is mind controlled or under Galactus' influence, but it doesn't stop him from battling BRB for even a second, and wrecking Stormbreaker. This is my major criticism. And then here comes Sif to protect BRB. Sif is generally seen as Thor's conscience, so it's symbolic of saying Thor has taken things too far.
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